Hello again devRanters! This is linuxxx again. A quick update regarding the privacy site!

Right now we're up to the following:

Ewpratten
- Converting what we have right now on frontend to Bootstrap.
- Working on a page with a description as to what this is going to be exactly.

linuxxx (me)
- Converted the static stuff we used before to a simple MVC based PHP web application.
- Created a DB scheme for the custom CMS I am going to write for this.
- Starting to work on the custom CMS right now!

We'll update as soon as we've got a well working description/introduction page :)

We won't be creating rants every day/new tiny feature/change or anything but as this is our first productive night, it seemed like a nice idea to update what we already got done/started on :).

Stay tuned!

Still trying to get good.

The requirements are forever shifting, and so do the applied paradigms.

I think the first layer is learning about each paradigm.

You learn 5-10 languages/technologies, get a feeling for procedural/functional/OOP programming. You mess around with some electronics engineering, write a bit of assembly. You write an ugly GTK program, an Android todo app, check how OpenGL works. You learn about relational models, about graph databases, time series storage and key value caches. You learn about networking and protocols. You void the warranty of all the devices in your house at some point. You develop preferences for languages and systems. For certain periods of time, you even become an insufferable fanboy who claims that all databases should be replaced by MongoDB, or all applications should be written in C# -- no exceptions in your mind are possible, because you found the Perfect Thing. Temporarily.

Eventually, you get to the second layer: Instead of being a champion for a single cause, you start to see patterns of applicability.

You might have grown to prefer serverless microservice architectures driven by pub/sub event busses, but realize that some MVC framework is probably more suitable for a 5-employee company. You realize that development is not just about picking the best language and best architecture -- It's about pros and cons for every situation. You start to value consistency over hard rules. You realize that even respected books about computer science can sometimes contain lies -- or represent solutions which are only applicable to "spherical cows in a vacuum".

Then you get to the third layer: Which is about orchestrating migrations between paradigms without creating a bigger mess.

Your company started with a tiny MVC webshop written in PHP. There are now 300 employees and a few million lines of code, the framework more often gets in the way than it helps, the database is terribly strained. Big rewrite? Gradual refactor? Introduce new languages within the company or stick with what people know? Educate people about paradigms which might be more suitable, but which will feel unfamiliar? What leads to a better product, someone who is experienced with PHP, or someone just learning to use Typescript?

All that theoretical knowledge about superior paradigms won't help you now -- No clean slates! You have to build a skyscraper city to replace a swamp village while keeping the economy running, together with builders who have no clue what concrete even looks like. You might think "I'll throw my superior engineering against this, no harm done if it doesn't stick", but 9 out of 10 times that will just end in a mix of concrete rubble, corpses and mud.

I think I'm somewhere between 2 and 3.

I think I have most of the important knowledge about a wide array of languages, technologies and architectures.

I think I know how to come to a conclusion about what to use in which scenario -- most of the time.

But dealing with a giant legacy mess, transforming things into something better, without creating an ugly amalgamation of old and new systems blended together into an even bigger abomination? Nah, I don't think I'm fully there yet.

Hello everyone, this is my first time here so hi! I want to tell you all a story about my current situation.

At 18 while in the military I was able to get my first computer, it was a small hp pavilion laptop with windows 7. The system would crash constantly, even though I would only use it for googling stuff and using fb to talk to people. 5 months after I got it and continuously hated it decided to find out why and who could I blame (other than myself) for the system making me do the ctrl alt del dance all the time....

Found out that there are people called computer programmers that made software. Decided to give it a go since I had some free time most days. Started out with c++ because it was being recommended in some websites. Had many "oh deeeeer lord" moments. After not getting much traction I decided to move to Java which seemed like an easier step than C++. Had fun, but after some verbosity I decided to move into more dynamic lands. Tried JS and since at the time there was no Node and I was not very into the idea of building websites I decided to move into Python, Ruby, PHP and Perl and had a really great time using and learning all of them. I decided to get good in theoretical aspects of computer programming and since I had a knack for math I decided to get started with basic computer science concepts.

I absolutely frigging loved it. And not only that, but learning new things became an obsession, the kind that would make me go to bed at 02:40 am just to wake up at 04:00 or 06:00 because the military is like that. I really wanted to absorb as much as I could since I wanted to go to college for it and wanted to be prepared since I did not wanted to be a complete newb. Took Harvard CS50, Standford Programming 101 with Java, Rice's Python course and MIT's Python programming class. I had so much fun I don't regret it one bit.
By the time I got to college I had already made the jump to Linux and was an adept Arch user, Its not that it was superior or anything, but it really forced me to learn about Linux and working around a terminal and the internals of the system to get what I want. Now a days I settle for Fedora or Debian based systems since they are easier and time is money.

Uni was a breeze, math was fun and the programming classes seemed like glorified "Hello World" courses. I had fun, but not that much fun, most of my time was spent getting better at actual coding. I am no genius, nor my grades were super amazing(I did graduate with honors though) but I had fun, which never really happened in school before that.

While in school I took my first programming gig! It was in ASP.NET MVC, we were using C#, I got the job through a customer that I met at work, I was working in retail during the time and absolutely hated it. I remember being so excited with the gig, I got to meet other developers! Where I am from there aren't that many and most of them are very specialized, so they only get concerned with certain aspects of coding (e.g VBA developers.....) and that is until I met the lead dev. He was by far one of the biggest assholes I had ever met in my life. Absolutely nothing that I would do or say made hem not be a dick. My code was steady, but I would find bugs of incomplete stuff that he would do, whenever I would fix it he would belittle me and constantly remind me of my position as a "junior dev" in the company saying things as "if you have an issue with my code or standards tell me, but do not touch the code" which was funny considering that I would not be able to advance without those fixes. I quit not even 3 months latter because I could not stand the dick, neither 2 of the other developers since the immediately resigned after they got their own courage.

A year latter I was able to find myself another gig. I was hesitant for a moment since it was another remote position in which I had already had a crappy experience. Boy this one was bad. To be fair, this was on me since I had to get good with Lumen after only having some exposure to Laravel. Which I did mentioned repeatedly even though he did offer to train me in order to help him. Same thing, after a couple of weeks of being told how much I did not know I decided to get out.

That is 2 strikes.

So I waited a little while and took a position inside another company that was using vanilla PHP to build their services. Their system was solid though, the lead engineer remains a friend and I did learn a lot from him. I got contracted because they were looking for a Java developer. The salary was good. But when I got there they mentioned that they wanted a developer in Java...to build Android. At the time I was using Java with Spring so I though "well how hard can this be! I already use Android so the love for the system is there, lets do this!" And it was an intense, fun and really amazing experience.

-- To be continued.

I developed a simple scholarship management system for my school using Laravel, MySQL, jQuery and Bootstrap, I did it for free since college students from my country have to pay social service to get their degrees. Everyone in the scholarships department seemed to be really happy with my work and they evaluated my social service with 10/10, but yesterday they asked for one last favor: to go talk to the new social service guy who'll be supposed to maintain my project, a mid 30's dude who was really pissed off from the beginning because he wasn't even able to deploy the project, he wasn't even able to clone the project from Github. Ok, so I tried to explain to him the tools I used and how the project was structured, but everything I said seemed to piss him even more, so I stopped and had a chat like:

Me: "Look man, do you know or at least have basic concepts of PHP and MVC frameworks?"

Guy: "Yes, but I'm a project manager, not just –despectively– any programmer, and you didn't write proper documentation, it's impossible to deploy your project with the manual you wrote, I cannot work like this".

*We go to their computer and I clone and setup the project in 3 minutes.

Guy: "Yes, but I still don't know how the project works, I need everything documented. If I have to change something, I don't know where to look.

Me: "Man, that's why asked you about knowing PHP MVC frameworks".

Guy: "I cannot work like this, nothing is documented, I don't even know what's that software you're using *points at Sublime Text*. Or tell me, can you arrive at a place where they expect you to work with something you don't know and they have no documentation?"

*At this point he was really pissed

Me: "Well... Dealing with non-documented software is what I do for a living"

Guy: "I don't know what companies you've worked for, probably not big ones..."

Me: "Well, I actually work for *I mention one of the biggest music apps in the country*"

*Guy ironically laughs

When I gave my feedback to the lady in charge of the department, I told her that this guy was really pissed off at how things were done and that I wasn't so sure of him being capable of maintaining the system. She told me not to worry, that the guy became a well known asshole in the office only after a few days, and that she'll probably have to find something else for him to do. It'd be hilarious if this guy ends up capturing scholarships in the system I made.

"WTF IS THIS?"

Exclaimed the developer that had never bothered to learn proper architectural patterns such as MVC in his web development are, failing to grasp the folder structure that was open in front of him, gasping at those strange php files that contained not only namespace declarations....but requires, uses and GASP! CLASSES!!

"That is Laravel my dude, built that in Laravel some time ago. Been running without an issue ever since." I mentioned as I reminded him that i had provided documentation had he ever needed to update or work with the application(currently it just needed a static page, which is why he had the app open in his editor)

See children. This is why you don't just learn a tool and never bother to learn something else.
Y'all should have seen how confused this dude was.

Das what yo dumbass gets.

OAN I am getting placed into more hardcore Business Intelligence roles.

The ammount of statistics and overall math required is....

Damn near 0. Data Scientists are full of shit. Anyone in an analyst role is full of shit.

I would know.

I IS one.

My tech stack progression:

Started with PHP without any frameworks, using a homegrown MVC architecture. Used to use `mysql_` functions everywhere. And only jquery + vanilla CSS in the front end.

Then moved to use PDO functions in PHP and Backbone.js + Less CSS in the front-end.

Then moved to Django in the back-end. Did not like Django very much as it is too opinionated and not flexible (although it's damn good for rapid development if you buy into their type of things).

Then moved to Flask + SQLAlchemy and using a home grown architecture. This is a sweet spot for me in terms of back end and stayed in this spot for the longest time.

Moved to Postgres from MySQL as I fell in love with Postgres.

Then learnt React+Redux. Liked it. Made most sense to front-end development this way. Moved front-end stack to React+Redux.

Learning Haskell and been working with Scotty and eyeing Servant for a while now.

Let's see where it goes from here.

PS: this is my personal journey through various tech stacks in various products at various companies I have worked. I'm not talking about moving a product through these many tech stacks. That doesn't make any sense.

Hi,
I'm not a ranty person so I never actually thought I'd post anything here but here it goes.

From the beginning.
We use ancient technologies. PHP 5.2, Symfony 1.2 and a non RFC complient SOAP with NO documentation.
A year ago We've been thrown a new temporary project. An VOIP app for every OS.
That being iOS, Android, MAC, PC, Linux, Windows mobile. With a 3 month deadline. All that thrown at 4 PHP developers. The idea being that They'll take it, sign the delivery protocol, everyone happy. No more updates for the app needed. They get their funds they needed the app for and we get paid.

Fast forward to today...

Our dev team started the year with great news that We'll most likely have to create a new project. Since the amount of new features would be far greater than current feature set, we managed to finally force our boss to use newer technologies (ie. seperate backend symfony4 PHP7+/frontend react, rest api and so on). So we were ecstatic to say the least. With preestimates aimed at a minimum 3 month development period. Since we're comfortable with everything that needs to be done.
Two days later our boss came to me that one of our most annoying clients needs a new feature. Said client uses ancient version written on a napkin because They changed half of the specification 2 weaks before deadline in a software made not by a developer but some sysadmin who didn't know anything. His MVC model was practically VVV model since he even had sql queries in some views. Feature will take 3 days - fixing everything that will break in the meantime - 1-2 months.
F*** it, fine. A little overtime won't kill me.
Yesterday boss comes again... Apparently someone lost a delivery protocol for a project we ended that half a year ago. Whats even better at the time when we asked for hardware to test we never got any. When we asked about any testing enviornment - nothing. The app being SEMI-stable on everything is an overstatement but it was working on the os'es available at the time. Since the client started testing now again, it turns out that both Android app does not work on 8.1/9 and the iOS app does not work on ios12. The client obviously does not want to pay and we can do little with it without the protocol, other than rewriting the apps.
It will take months at least since all of those apps were written by people that didn't know neither the OS'es nor the languages. For example I started writing the iOS one in swift. Only to learn after half of the development time, that swift doesn't like working by C Library rules and I had to use ObjC also. With some C thrown in due to the library. 3 unknown languages, on an unknown platform in 3 months. I never had any apple device in my hand at that time nor do I intend to now. I'm astonished it worked out then. It was a clusterf**k of bad design and sticking everything together with deprecated apis and a gum. So I'll have to basically fully rewrite it.

If boss decides we'll take all those at the same time I'll f***ing jump of a bridge.

Mid-Friday: Boss: Start programming this application.
Me: Cool, how will it be setup? what lang-
Boss: Everything's already setup, just start programming in PHP. Check in and make sure it's done by Wednesday morning before 9.
Mid-Tuesday:
Me: Cool, it's done. Had some trouble with connecting our database to the clients, some permissions were conflicting.
Boss: Now I need you to pull it, publish it to our other azure portal, change it to ASP.NET Core 2.1 MVC and install it to teams. Also change the database to MySQL.
Me: I thought everything was already setup.
Boss: things change.
Me: Cool.
*Pulls an all nighter*
Me: Something isn't right...
Wednesday
Me*hasn't slept yet*: It's done.
Boss: Why do you look so tired?
Me: I was working last night
Boss: Well you shouldn't do that.
Me: The deadline is today. only way it was going to get done before 9 was to do it last night.
Boss: Doesn't matter.
9am Meeting:
Boss: it was easy, no hassle, it's up and running.
Me: no hassle?

Joined a new company...
It's been a week since I joined.I feel like shit.
There are over 20 employees, however I didn't had a chance to chat with a single person for more than a minute or two. Not a single meaningful or even a shitty but personal conversation. I'm trying to strike up conversations whenever I can, but there are no possibilities to do so. I think they have a few chat groups where I'm not added. At lunch time they suddenly start running to a guy that gathers the money to buy lunch, i saw that and joined, but I'm 99% sure they are communicating/speaking on some kind of chat.

I joined as a front-end developer, however I'm not sure if I'm a junior or whatever here. On the first day they showed me the system, they are using PHP and jquery + es6, the structure is messy and I'm not used to it It should be MVC-like, but messier, but it's not like anything I have seen. I usually work with opencart / cakePHP style systems. There are js files with a lot of custom funcions and sometimes there are functions that have mixed jquery and es6 inside script tags top or bottom of the view files. There are a lot of code that I don't understand, on the third day they gave me a task - to remodel a view (basically one page in the cms) I did it, but they didn't check up on me untill the next day, I gave them some notes on the task I finished, and I started making some of the code easier to read for myself after I was done. They didn't really gave me a new task, and I don't know what to do, don't have anyone to ask about what to do, because there are only 2 developers here, and the other guy is on vacation. The boss is also a coder, but he's never here and I feel like I shouldn't be asking him stupid coding questions, because you know.. He's a boss. I understand a lot more of their PHP code then their js/jquery. I feel like I'm stupid and I don't know what I am doing here and what I will be doing here in the future. I did move across the country to join this company, and if this won't work out i have a rent contract signed for a year. Today I was looking at the clock for the last 2 hours of the work day and waiting untill I could get out of there. To say that I feeling like shit would be an understatement.

I don't have anyone whom I could ask for coding advice outside of the company. Fuck.I have worked in a few companies before, but there was always an introduction to the staff, and or the working environment and usually there was a person that I could ask questions on the regular. This company is bigger however and I'm not an emotional guy whatsoever, but I feel like I will start crying.

I used to work in a small agency that did websites and Phonegap apps, and the senior developer was awful.

He had over a decade of experience, but it was the same year of experience over and over again. His PHP was full of bad practices:

- He'd never used an MVC framework at all, and was resistant to the idea, claiming he was too busy. Instead he did everything as PHP pages
- He didn't know how to use includes, and would instead duplicate the database connection settings. In EVERY SINGLE FILE.
- He routinely stored passwords in plain text until I pretty much forced him to use the new PHP password hashing API
- He sent login details as query strings in a GET request
- He couldn't use version control, and he couldn't deploy applications using anything other than FTP

TL;DR you suck, I suck and everybody sucks, deal with it....

------------------------------------

Let me let off some steam, since I've had enough of people hating on languages "just because"

Every language has it's drawbacks and quirks, BUT they have their strengths also. Saying "I hate {language}" is just you being and ignorant prick and probably your head is so far up your ass that you look like an ass hat. With that being said, every language is either good or bad depending on the developer writing in it. Let's give you an example:

If I ware to give you a brick and ask you to put a nail in a plank, can you do it? Yes, it will be easier if you do it with a hammer, but you have a brick, so hammer is out of the question. If you hit your thumb while doing it... well... sorry, but it is not the bricks fault - it is YOU!

JavaScript, yes it has a whole lot of problems, but it works, you can do a ton of stuff and does a good job at that, it is evolving through node and typescript (and others, just a personal pref), BUT if you used js when you ware debugging that jquery (1.0) plugin written in the free time of a 13 yo, who copy pasted a bunch from SO, well, it is not js' problem - deal with it. Same goes for PHP, i've been there where you had a single `index.php` with bazillion lines of code, did a bunch of eval and it was called MVC, but it also is evolving.. thing is all languages allow you to do some dumb stuff so YOU have to be responsible to not fuck it up (which you always DO btw, we all do). Difference is PHP/JS roll with it because the assumption is that you know what you are doing, which again - newsflash - you don't.

More or less I would blame that shit on businesses which decided to go with undergrads to save money instead of investing in their product, hell, I am in a major company that does not invest that doesn't care a whole lot about dev /tech stuff and now everybody's mother is an engineer - they care about money, because investors care about money (ROI) and because clean code does not pay the bills, but money does.

If we get all of the good practices and apply them to each language every one of them has it's place, that is why there is no "The Language", even if there was, we STILL ware going to fuck it up and probably it was going to be even worse than where we are now.

Study, improve, rinse and repeat... There are SENIORS and LEADS out there that are about 25-30 and have no fucking clue about the language, because they have stuck up their heads up the ass of frameworks and refuse to take a breath of clean air and consider something different than their dogmatic framework "way" of doing things.. That is the result you are seeing. Let me give you a fresh example to illustrate where I am at atm:

Le me works with ZendFramework 2.3-2.5 (why not, which is PHP5+ running on PHP7 [fancy, eh]), and little me writes a module for said project, and tries to contain it in its own space, i.e not touching anything outside of the folder of the module so it is SELF-CONTAINED (see, practices), during 2-3-4 iterations of code review, I've had to modify 4 different modules with `if (somthing === self::SOMETHING_TYPE)` as requested by my TL, which resulted in me not covering 3 use-cases after the changes and not adding a new event (the fw is event-driven, cuz.. reasons) so I have to use a bunch of ifs in the code, to check a config value and do shit. That is the way of I am asked to do things I hate what I've done and the fact that because of CR I have lost case-coverage, a week of work and the same TL will be on my ass on monday that things are now "perfect".

The biggest things is "we care about convention and code style"... right.... That is not because of the language, not because of me, not because of the framework - it is some dude's opinion that you hate, not the language.

New stuff are better, reinventing the wheel is also good, if it wasn't you would've had a few stone circular things on your car and things ware going to be like that - we need to try and try, that is the only way we actually learn shit.

Until things change in the trade, we will be on the same boat, complaining about the same shit over and over, you and me won't be alive probably but things will not change a bit.

We live in a place where state is considered good, god objects necessary (can you believe it, I've got kudos for using the term 'God Object'... yep, let that sink in). If you really hate something, please, oh god I beg you, show me how you will do it better and I will shake your hand and buy you a beer, but until then, please keep your ass-hurt fanboy opinion to your self, no one gives a shit about what you think, we will die and the world will not notice...

So I started in a new job a week ago for a two weeks probation period, im getting payed double than my last job but it's so professionally frustrating.

They use a full php stack with a framework called tinymvc that I never heard of and the last commit is from 2009.

Beside this they implement some sort of "flexible" MVC where a great amount of the logic are inside the views. They have one model for each entity (in theory) but in reality one model have methods for a lot of tables.

Beside this the i18n is done by querying the database for all the translation strings and copying it in every user session, so every session file it's about 400kb where around 380 are duplicated translations.

The views folder is empty because they decided to modify the framework to look for the views in another folder called resource's and the development must be done connected directly to the production database

Above all this shit all the many-to-many relations in the database (MySQL) are handled creating a comma separated field on one of the tables, completely breaking the reference integrity.

So, after a week of work I can't stop thinking who the fuck developed this? In which world this shit is okay? How can I work around this big lake of shit?

I might be fucked up, but I have a tendency to gravitate towards the shit that everyone else dislikes for the sake of knowing if their bias against is actually because shit is truly fucked up or if shit is legit plain WRONG.

From all technologies that I have worked with professionally I can count:

Java(currently in the form of old JSP services for an "enterprise level application")

Java for Android development - i was the lead engineer for a mobile project

Swift with IOS dev, same gig as the above.

C++ for Android development in the form of OpenCV with Java as well.

Javascript in all possible forms, basic input validation, ajax services, jquery datatables, jquery animations and builders.

Css/sass heavily

Clojure for an ldap active directory application

Python for glue scripts

Classic ASP with JScript and VBScript

VB Net forms

C# For ASP.NET MVC

Bootstrap for multiple intranet frontends

Node+Express for a logistics warehouse management tool

Ruby on Rails freelancing small gigs

Php in all ways possible from complete standalone php apps to Laravel and just php+composer apps aaaaall the way to wordpress

Django consulting

I have found that the one that I dislike the most is wordpress. And the one that I like working with the most is Node. Don't know why, i just do really fucking like messing around with Javascript, the language has changed a fuckload throughout the years and continues to increase and change. It was my first scripting language following a stint in me trying to learn cpp way when i was starting and royally FAILING

Never really got the hate for it, even when I used JScript with classic ASP i just enjoy working with Javascript a lil too much. And from all the above mentioned stacks safe from Php is the one, or one of the ones in which i don't royally suck :V

At work, my closest relation is with the DBA. Dude is a genius when it comes to proper database management as well as having a very high level of understanding concerning server administration, how he got that good at that I have no clue, he just says that he likes to fuck around with servers, Linux in particular although he also knows a lot about Windows servers.

Thing is, the dude used to work as a dev way back when VB pre VB.NET was all the rage and has been generating different small tools for his team of analysts(I used to be a part of his team) to use with only him maintaining them. He mentioned how he did not like how Microsoft just said fk u to VB6 developers, but that he was happy as long as he could use VB. He relearned how to do most of the GUI stuff he was used to do with VB6 into VB.NEt and all was good with the world. I have seen his code, proper OOP practices and architectural decisions, etc etc. Nothing to complain about his code, seems easy enough to extend, properly documented as well.

Then he got with me in order to figure out how to breach the gap between building GUI applications into web form, so that we could just host those apps in one of our servers and his users go from there, boy was he not prepared to see the amount of fuckery that we do in the web development world. Last time my dude touched web development there was still Classic ASP with JScript and VBScript(we actually had the same employer at one point in the past in which I had to deal with said technology, not bad, but definitely not something I recommend for the current state of web development) and decided that the closest thing to what he was used was either PHP(which he did not enjoy, no problem with that really, he just didn't click with the language) and WebForms using VB.NET, which he also did not like on account of them basically being on support mode since Microsoft is really pushing for people to adopt dotnet core.

After came ASP.NET with MVC, now, he did like it, but still had that lil bug in his head that told him that sticking to core was probably a better idea since he was just starting, why not start with the newest and greatest? Then in hit(both of us actually) that to this day Microsoft still not has command line templates for building web applications in .net core using VB.NET. I thought it was weird, so I decided to look into. Turns out, that without using Razor, you can actually build Web APIs with VB.NET just fine if you just convert a C# template into VB.NET, the process was...err....tricky, and not something we would want to do for other projects, with that in we decided to look into Microsoft's reasons to not have VB.NET. We discovered how Microsoft is not keeping the same language features between both languages, having crown C# as the language of choice for everything Microsoft, to this point, it seems that Microsoft was much more focused in developing features for the excellent F# way more than it ever had for VB.NET at this point and that it was not a major strategy for them to adapt most of the .net core functionality inside of VB, we found articles when the very same Microsoft team stated of how they will be slowly adding the required support for VB and that on version 5 we would definitely have proper support for VB.NET ALTHOUGH they will not be adding any new development into the language.

Past experience with Microsoft seems to point at them getting more and more ready to completely drop the language, it does not matter how many people use it, they would still kill it :P I personally would rather keep it, or open source the language's features so that people can keep adding support to it(if they can of course) because of its historical significance rather than them just completely dropping the language. I prefer using C#, and most of my .net core applications use C#, its very similar to Java on a lot of things(although very much different in others) and I am fine with it being the main language. I just think that it sucks to leave such a large developer pool in the shadows with their preferred tool of choice and force them to use something else just like that.

My boy is currently looking at how I developed a sample api with validation, user management, mediatR and a custom project structure as well as a client side application using React and typescript swappable with another one built using Angular(i wanted to test the differences to see which one I prefer, React with Typescript is beautiful, would not want to use it without it) and he is hating every minute of it on account of how complex frontend development has become :V

Just wanted to vent a little about a non bothersome situation.

After few years of coding php, I finally REALLY get the mvc pattern. Never gonna write crappy code again.

First day of web server programming class. The teacher clearly doesn't know anything. He doesn't even know what the course is about! When someone asks him what it is, he mumbles about "dynamic" something... Then he says we will be using the languages JavaScript, MVC, and PHP. What the fuck. MVC? LANGUAGE?

He then tries to come up with some project we could make, and is not going to teach anything apparently. Keep in mind, most people in this class have very little previous experience with programming.

After not saying anything for a long time, he finally tells us to make a clock in JavaScript. A CLOCK. He is supposed to teach how to make Web APIs and such, but instead, he tells us to make a clock in JavaScript, and that's it.

What. The. Fuck.

So I was assigned to improve an existing internal CMS application where they wanted the ability to add extra form applications and restricting them based on people from different departments. As well as include some other improvements like speed as they mentioned that it was slow in some instances.

What I found was the original developer decided to not use any kind of framework and decided to be creative by creating his own MVC framework. With about 300 users in this system and utilising no caching of queries, views, not even using PHP OpCache, even quite a few security holes, I was damn surprised at how this thing was running. I asked the original developer why he didn't use an open source framework and he said that he thought that he'd create something and be the next Facebook.

It was a mammoth task to "improve" this system but the main thing was that I took custody of this project and that I prevented him from trying to make a bigger mess of things for this project.

Authors of articles that say PHP is past because "it doesn't separate concerns" and "it just spits out HTML within logic"… please don't write about something you don't know

I hate it when all tutorials fail to explain MVC in detail...

I achieved great confusion.

Started new job almost two moths ago..

For almost 3 years I was developing custom themes, plugins, and widget for WordPress using PHP, jQuery/AJAX, and MySQL.

The new company that hired me brought me on as a backend developer to help rebuild their custom PHP Framework, and other web based software/products as their moving toward Google Cloud Platform.

When I started, MVC and OOP was new to me... took a couple weeks to get the hang of things, and understand their system.

Just when I was getting comfortable, I had a task assigned to me that was all NodeJS...

Had a 30 check-in the week I started the Node task, and was feeling pretty beat down because it was all new to me and I wasn’t making a lot of progress, and still not comfortable with Promises yet, and some other ES6 features but finding my way around slowly but surely.

Manager reassured me that I wasn’t going to be fired and it wasn’t unique to myself. Very encouraging to hear, but I’m my own worst critic so it’s frustrating not being able to make progress like I would with PHP projects.

Fast forward to this week, I started to review another task for a feed and found it’s all Ruby! Another language I have no familiarity with... and started to question if I’ll every get the hang of all these languages and be a solid team member...

Not only do I have to get a grasp on NodeJS and Ruby now, but then I’ll also have to get familiar with GCP and whatever else comes along with it...

Oh and I’m using Linux now instead of Windows/ OSX... so there’s that too.. plus the other command line tools the company built, and uses..

I was comfortable developing in PHP and know I needed to take a step and accept this job to move my career forward but it seems like I’m always behind the 8 ball...

Some days I wonder if it was worth staying a Wordpress developer and just focused on learning ReactJS and stay more Front-end than Backend..

I enjoy working with talented people but I don’t like being the low man on the totem pole knowing I don’t have the experience yet.

Does it feel like this for all devs?!?!

I sometimes cry a lil bit when I see php sql code without pdo. Specially when someone mentions a cool example online or a tutorial or whatever. Guys please, get good with sql as well as pdo....please pretty please with cherries on top. While we are at it, it might not be the solution to aaaall problems....but mvc can do wonders for you, it really can. That pattern has been on for a while...learn it and use it well. Also, restful apis are good mmkay? They fit nice with the glory of Node.js and its amazing front end powers and utilities mmmmmmkay?

A couple of years back I wrote what would be a strong contender for the title: the ugliest mvc framework ever written in php.
Bright side: now I know the pitfalls of mvc very intimately.
Brighter side: never have to work on that code again.

Now I can use ready made mvc frameworks and still know where to look if shit goes south.

Coming from Java, I am slowly loving the MVC OOP PHP.

So how on earth is Strict MVC good for web dev. A variation of MVC works well but strict principles no!!!

After creating my own PHP MVC framework with Twig as templating engine, everything is now so simple and so fast, I juat cant belive how much I understand now. The development is just so smooth, you know exactly what to do all the time... And for my simple project, it does not even hurt that much to use PHP (and its even strictly typed 7.2, so not that bad). I think that I am in love. ❤

when you start a project with "im gonna do this MVC thing correctly this time" then after a few days, weeks you realise everything is a controller

am i the only one?

I discover last week Eloquent ORM.
A php database abstraction layer.
How to make things quickly! Great tools!

I just wanted to create a small website using PHP MVC... Haha

!rant

For a bunch of application redesigns that we are doing at work I am letting the other two developers in my department help with selecting the stack. Normally, we work with Java and PHP, and while they seem to enjoy php I find them concerned at the possibility of making it more Java centric.

So I compiled a list of examples of different tech stacks that are not only more modern (cuz our Java stuff is old JSP stuff) but also simple to learn and use. Mind you, the point is to make this a gradual change, not just rewrite the entire house from scratch.

the list contained examples in:
Python: django and flask

Ruby: Ruby on Rails

Java: Spring Boot

Golang: Small self made mvc framework I built, nothing fancy on it, it uses templates and shit, didn't make it api centric

Node: Express examples in both vanilla JS and TypeScript

php with Laravel.

Since we work with php most of the time as well I imagined that they would be more inclined for Laravel, but I was wrong :P they seemed to like the Node Express route and the Golang route more than anything else with Python and Django being close.

Personally I know that there is more to selecting a stack, but initial perceptions make for a lot of things in selection of the stack.

Pretty excited, if they gauge everything considered in regards to what we have and we found Golang to be a clear winner it would give them the chance to add a nice and competitive tech to their resumes.

not a rant, or anything per se, just wanted to share some stuff with y'all

Boss: convinced the client to rewrite his ancient procedural PHP prototype to .NET MVC.
Next day:
Boss: Actually he decided to just retrofit it... again.

God damnit!!

Just got a team assigned for the course I follow and the codebase they work looks like someone shit on the floor and dragged it all over place. No consistency, no clear structure.

The project has to be built in PHP (which is fine by the way) following the principles of MVC. Did I say the codebase looks like shit all over the place? Well that's exactly what it is!!

They use $_SERVER['DOCUMENT_ROOT'] everywhere!! In every fucking file!! Why the FUCK would someone possibly want to do that??

I know I'm not perfect, but what the fuck!!

Now comes the most weird thing. They have to work on a remote server without SSH access, so working with FTP is mandatory. This is because the school won't setup ssh. That's fine by me, but because of that they don't use git!! They upload files directly to the production server. They merge everything manually. I asked why they didn't use git and the answer was so fucking SHIT!! "Because the teacher wants to see who uploaded to the server.."

First off all: what happened to git blame? Second: Later I heard that there is only one FTP account, so all the things they said where just bullshit!!

The fuck.

Tomorrow I'm going to try and convince them to use git..

Web developers working since years in Java, spring and hibernate have no idea how to make a website live and don't even know basic MVC structure..
Being a PHP developer m so shocked !!
Is it true for most of the java developers??

Custom php api for huge known national software. No frameworks. Not following mvc structure. No decent documentation. Im the new dev and like how the fuck should i catch up before they think im not productive

!rant
I built a webinterface a few months ago. it was based on the php framework laravel. but i want to change to nodejs in combination with mongodb.
do you know good nodejs mvc frameworks similar to laravel?

It's my first rant. So please ++1 me.

Now my rant:

In this semester I had a subject about system architecture. In this class, we must learn Java script, C# (and ASP.NET framework ), PHP (and Zend Framework 2), but in the classes is taught only UML and patterns. In the moodle of the subject we don't have any information about any of the languages and if we ask the teachers they don't know anything.
And we need in 4 weeks do a work with a widget in javascript, 2 Asp.net mvc, 1 asp.net web api. All with authentication.

So we are all fucked

Most of us have scary stories about professors that think that they know about what they are talking about when it comes to teaching comp sci subjects. Shit is so backwards in most parts of the world with teachers showing outdated or completely pointless tech.

A friend called me the other day asking for classic ASP help because it was being used in his web class. Another was asking me about flipping c cgi web scripting. Wtf are schools teaching? Having the drive to LEARN actuall useful topics that are relevant on the market is hard enough as it is...shouldn't schools help at least a little bit? I was lucky, we were thaught Java, Python, cpp, js, sql, html5, css3, php, ruby and we had classes for node (for those interested) and asp.net mvc. Those were RELEVANT and good classes and while some outdated tech was good the rest is just bullshit. Specially since most teachers have 0 market value as develpers...but hey!! Wtf do I know! Of course my word is shit against all them doctorate and master degrees.

Gimme a break. School can be great. But a lot of the leadership there is toxic af for our industry. And while I appreciate the effort in me being thaught modern languages (and thaught is a hard word since I already knew how to program way before going to school) i still remember a teacher taking points away from an assignment for not using switch statements in Python...despite my explaining that there was no such thing (you can go around it by using a lil technique using functions, its pretty cool..pero no mames)
Or what about the time I mentioned to a fellow student how he could use markup for having more control with his windows forms while the very same teacher contradicted me saying that shit was not possible. Or the guy at the school in which I work teaching intro to programming using fucking vba...fk man if you are going the BASIC route at least teach them b4j or something fuuuuck.

I had good teachers, but they were always cast asside by dptmnt heads as if they knew better. I just hate pendejo teachers I really do.

Chinguen a su madre, bola de babosos.

It started when i was about 10 old.
My uncle showed me how to display something in dos-prompt using the echo command in a custom batch-file.
A few commands later, i was able to "program" a flip-book of an ascii ski-driver. Each ascii picture was separated by pressing any key and cls ^^
Aaaaah. Sweet childhood memories!

Later on i used a programming-language for beginners in windows.
This language gave you control of a triangle called "turtle".

My first high-level programming language was Delphi.
Since i had no idea of databases, i created a pseudo database of magic the gathering play-cards. Each card had it's very own windows formular filled up completely with an uncompressed image object displaying the chosen card modally. *sigh*
I scanned each card by using a feed scanner.
Finally, my application consisted of 200 cardimages and forced my PC to swap the required memory from my harddisk.
Boy o boy. I was such a noob! ^^

Over the years i discovered and felt in love with a lot of languages (jsp, java (script), c#, php, ...) and concepts (mvvm, mvc, clean-architecture, tdd, ...)! ;)

Feeling useless over something probably ridiculously simple and straightforward.

Test written: check
Route defined: check
View created: check
Controller method defined: check

Testing... Error: Controller method not found

Save me stackoverflow!!

I am writing a simple MVC Framework with PHP for learning and have a lot of small questions which are probably stupid or just typos...
Where is the best place to ask those?

I don't want to spam SO with this because most of the time I just have an error and don't even know what to ask.

Why so few PHP (PDO and/or MVC) CMS out there? Especially on GitHub (most of them unmantained)?

I can't believe this is happening... I'm coding something in PHP...

It's the only language the makes sense for this project really. I need something that can easily run Linux commands.. it needs a small footprint... and it needs to be something people are familiar with.

I feel sick thinking about it... just looking at frameworks was making me want to puke. Luckily I found one that was my style. MVC and it is TINY...

I guess my next issues is.. should this application be OS or should I make it proprietary to my Web hosting services?

Hey everyone! Wanna hear some advice from other PHP Developer. Is it necessary to learn MVC in PHP? And what are the benefits of it? A course link could be helpful :)

What is everyones opinions on declaring class constructors as 'final'?
Could use some feedback experience, pros/cons?

I'm building a hobby MVC-like framework inspired by OpenCart, where the default controller method is "index" rather then "__construct"

Keep in mind i'm only writing code towards the latest supported PHP versions, so PHP4 style constructors are not of concern.

What exactly is a full-stack developer/engineer? I'm confused.

So, I worked as a freelance webdev for a US company where I redesigned a pretty complicated website from scratch with PHP, mysql, JavaScript, CSS, HTML5. I only mention those because it will important later.
Basically, it's a lame mvc framework I wrote which heavily relied on AJAX and bootstrap modals.
I built from mysql <=> PHP -> UI
I Also built an android app that communicates with the php api

I worked for 4.6 years and they were kind enough to give me the designation "Full Stack Engineer" so I could put that on my resume. Alright, cool.

Then I go to this interview and one interviewer took offense. He told me that, there are 3 tiers of web dev; Database, Backend shit and UI. And I'm not a full-stack engineer. He then asked me if I worked with frameworks like laravel, symphony etc. [I did but not in this project]. I didn't know what to say. The other interviewer tried to help me, "Do you know what it means? Or have you ever worked with React.js or Angular?".

Didn't get the job and I'm so embarrassed and just feel like I'm a fraud. How could I not know what full-stack is? And why did I put it in my resume? Fuck!

Anyway can anyone tell me what "full- stack *" is?

>inb4
>incoherent
>bad engrish
Just fuck my shit up fam

My model for one part of my project has become so crazy big I’m become lost every time I add a new feature or debug :-/

I learned today that learning programming in MVC architecture has nothing to do with programming but understanding objects, layers, architecture etc.

Please dear tutorial creators, introduce me to the subject with explanations of those and not with some code of mvc or whatever.

Coolest project.... SharePoint sucks, so I wrote an app to extend it into something that is useful.

The app consists of:
- a custom SharePoint event receiver to maintain a custom retention setup
- a custom feature to enable users to tag documents as related to each other
- a custom search experience with custom views and previews
- a .Net windows service to sync the data into a SQL database
- a .Net MVC application to manage the reporting and notifications system
- a notifications system in .Net
- custom SharePoint approval workflow
- a PHP site that maintains a full backup of every document in the event that SharePoint goes down

I was the only developer on the entire project and while I asked for backup they never provided it. So if anything happens to me... And since I am a good dev, my code is self documenting and someone will need to telepathically link to me to find out the multiple places that all of this is running (like five different servers including both windows and Linux).

The whole thing, I have about 18 months invested into it ;)

Hello !
I written a php framework its
Mvc + ef ( endpoint, fragment )
Good for both api and website
Its really lightweight and its quite fast but i think its good for small to medium projects .
Do you think i should keep it going ?
Or its just a waste of time ?

I am laravel developer who just started to explore advanced part of it. I have a confusion with topics events and queues. Events are call when an action is performed in the application where as queues are job for repeated and long tasks. My question is when to use both of them? Can we use a queue inside an event?

!rant => question?

I'm hired as a freelancer for a start-up that wants to create a social-network-like platform. I've always been a "basic" PHP and javascript developer like using AngularJS, MySQL and my own kinda like PHP MVC framework etc.. But I'm worried that 'this' will come short when the platform expands on the user-base and stuff. That MySQL won't be able to keep up with the expectations and the amountof data, that AngularJS will not be enough for the Frontend,.. I've taken a look at ReactJS, RethinkDB, NodeJS and such, but this is not really within my "comfort zone" and I'm not willing to invest time in something new if it's not able to handle the platform (I don't know if it will..) and I'm afraid that I'll have to start from scratch if it all fails.. (and this is something I can't afford)

So.. What are you guys's opinions? We're not looking at millions of users, but it will have feeds, comments, connections, messages, post scopes,.. Etc. RethinkDB looks promising with the 'watchers' to get live data instantly, but it's a whole new way of query'ing and such.. It just feels like I'm wasting my time because I'm afraid that I'll reach a point in development where I'll have a situation for example like "damn.. This is impossible with angular or php.." [I've shouldn't have agreed to this project..] :D

Suggestions for a book (if possible german) about php design patterns like mvc, singletons, dependency injections etc.?
If explained good it can also be in another language instead of php.

It's actually funny, as I shared equal passion for the English language and technology( how and why things things worked), with software engineering being the preferred choice.

I started studying practical software engineering, which basically only teaches the fundamentals of a select languages, like C, C#, JAVA, PHP and SQL. Had to teach myself PHP and MVC development for my end project.. So I turned to google and youtube. Great experience so far :)

PS: sometimes I wish I studied English instead!

I'm on my internship right now, working on Library Management System and thinking about how data will load fast in server-side, it took almost a minute even I used DataTables. It is JUST a 22K+ of library records. Is my only knowledge is just PHP, MYSQL, JS... caused this problem? Would MVC help, i'm only have 200 hours to finish the project but no knowledge yet in MVC

So let me get this straight.
- You propose a tutorial about how to create an e-commerce website using Laravel, with a shitty powerpoint-like display
- We have to click "next" to learn the basics of PHP, MVC, Laravel, Mix and such, while all I need to know is about the payment system and global logic
- On the last PowerPoint, you suddenly decide that you should finally think about displaying some actual code while all before was theoric class
- So the last powerpoint page is 45 times longer than any other previous pages.

- Of course, there was nothing about what I was looking for.

You should consider stop wasting everyone's time as a 2018 new resolution.

Who else doesn't give a shit about OOP and MVC frameworks in php 😂 😂....

Any Swiss freelance dev here? For php mvc projects. I need some more arms in my company. Thx.

The worst tech I've been working on is not related to a programming language, is more about the codebase itself.
One of them was in .net, the guy reinvented the wheel creating a custom mvc framework and a custom entity framework, copying from cakephp models, was disgusting and felt terribly wrong to work with.
Then I moved to an old cms written in php on top of an old version of cakephp, that was a nightmare too. Fat controllers and a disgusting db schema, no coding standards whatsoever. Everything so deeply convoluted and connected that was impossible to change something without breaking something else.
The technology itself is never the worst thing, people who thinks they are the best ninja developers, are the real problem imho, and the code they leave behind speaks for them. Yuck

How to start learning PHP MVC and OOP?

I’m starting a new job and it’s custom software, but I’m coming from a wordpress development background.