Most embarrassing and lucky moment on the first week of job.

Me and my best friend were selected in the same company as developers. I was having some trouble with my system. So I mailed the description to our support department. Pop up was displayed from our chat client and person on the other end happened to be a lady. She wanted me to share a team viewer link with click access. So I did it and within 2 minutes of efforts she solved it. I thanked her, closed the chat conversation and started installing few packages. Meanwhile, I was curious to see her as she was really nice throughout the conversation. So I opened LinkedIn, searched for her name and found her profile. I zoomed in her photo and she was a pretty chick. I didn't stop and found her on FB too, and quickly saw all her DPs. I just copied her profile URL and sent it to my friend ( the one that got selected with me ) and told him about my conversation with her. Then I asked my friend
"She's hot. Should I send her a friend request or have to find some more troubles in my pc and talk to her few more times ? :P "
He replied "Dude what are you wanting for ? "
Out of no where, a pop up showed up. It was the girl we were talking about. The exact message was

"You can now close your team viewer session, and we can talk over FB :)"

Embarrassing AF!

I was a freshman in highschool when I encountered the book entitled "Teach Yourself Visual Basic 6 in 21 Days"

I loved that book so much that it took me 4 years to finish it.

Freshman: hey can you check what's wrong with my code?
Me: ya of course
*Sees zero comments, no indents, all variables named a,b,c,etc.*
Me: oh would you look at the time!

People are posting their setups so I thought I'd post this.

It's a 2012 MacBook Pro, 13 inch. I put 16GB ram and some solid state in there just so it gets the job done.

When I was a freshman in high school, my dad saw something in me that he believed in (and I didn't). He decided to put his money where his heart was. He told me that he would go out and buy me a computer, and I wouldn't have to pay him back, if I would work hard at programming to pay for my own college.

His investment payed off. I just graduated high school and started a job last week that will get me through college debt-free through the gap year that I'm taking. This machine's getting a little old, but it means a lot to me. It reminds me that my dad believed in me even when I didn't. 🖖🏼

I’m kind of pissy, so let’s get into this.
My apologies though: it’s kind of scattered.

Family support?
For @Root? Fucking never.

Maybe if I wanted to be a business major my mother might have cared. Maybe the other one (whom I call Dick because fuck him, and because it’s accurate) would have cared if I suddenly wanted to become a mechanic. But in both cases, I really doubt it. I’d probably just have been berated for not being perfect, or better at their respective fields than they were at 3x my age.

Anyway.
Support being a dev?
Not even a little.

I had hand-me-down computers that were outmoded when they originally bought them: cutting-edge discount resale tech like Win95, 33/66mhz, 404mb hd. It wouldn’t even play an MP3 without stuttering.

(The only time I had a decent one is when I built one for myself while in high school. They couldn’t believe I spent so much money on what they saw as a silly toy.)

Using a computer for anything other than email or “real world” work was bad in their eyes. Whenever I was on the computer, they accused me of playing games, and constantly yelled at me for wasting my time, for rotting in my room, etc. We moved so often I never had any friends, and they were simply awful to be around, so what was my alternative? I also got into trouble for reading too much (seriously), and with computers I could at least make things.

If they got mad at me for any (real or imagined) reason (which happened almost every other day) they would steal my things, throw them out, or get mad and destroy them. Desk, books, decorations, posters, jewelry, perfume, containers, my chair, etc. Sometimes they would just steal my power cables or network cables. If they left the house, they would sometimes unplug the internet altogether, and claim they didn’t know why it was down. (Stealing/unplugging cables continued until I was 16.) If they found my game CDs, those would disappear, too. They would go through my room, my backpack and its notes/binders/folders/assignments, my closet, my drawers, my journals (of course my journals), and my computer, too. And if they found anything at all they didn’t like, they would confront me about it, and often would bring it up for months telling me how wrong/bad I was. Related: I got all A’s and a B one year in high school, and didn’t hear the end of it for the entire summer vacation.

It got to the point that I invented my own language with its own vocabulary, grammar, and alphabet just so I could have just a little bit of privacy. (I’m still fluent in it.) I would only store everything important from my computer on my only Zip disk so that I could take it to school with me every day and keep it out of their hands. I was terrified of losing all of my work, and carrying a Zip disk around in my backpack (with no backups) was safer than leaving it at home.

I continued to experiment and learn whatever I could about computers and programming, and also started taking CS classes when I reached high school. Amusingly, I didn’t even like computers despite all of this — they were simply an escape.

Around the same time (freshman in high school) I was a decent enough dev to actually write useful software, and made a little bit of money doing that. I also made some for my parents, both for personal use and for their businesses. They never trusted it, and continually trashtalked it. They would only begrudgingly use the business software because the alternatives were many thousands of dollars. And, despite never ever having a problem with any of it, they insisted I accompany them every time, and these were often at 3am. Instead of being thankful, they would be sarcastically amazed when nothing went wrong for the nth time. Two of the larger projects I made for them were: an inventory management system that interfaced with hand scanners (VB), and another inventory management system for government facility audits (Access). Several websites, too. I actually got paid for the Access application thanks to a contract!

To put this into perspective, I was selected to work on a government software project about a year later, while still in high school. That didn’t impress them, either.

They continued to see computers as a useless waste of time, and kept telling me that I would be unemployable, and end up alone.

When they learned I was dating someone long-distance, and that it was a she, they simply took my computer and didn’t let me use it again for six months. Really freaking hard to do senior projects without a computer. They begrudgingly allowed me to use theirs for schoolwork, but it had a fraction of the specs — and some projects required Flash, which the computer could barely run.

Between the constant insults, yelling, abuse (not mentioned here), total lack of privacy, and the theft, destruction, etc. I still managed to teach myself about computers and programming.

In short, I am a dev despite my parents’ best efforts to the contrary.

Computer Science is probably the only major where if you suck at it and end up dropping out, you're more likely to be a leader than someone who is good at it and sticks with it.

There were roughly 200 people in my freshman class majoring in CS, by my sophomore year that number had dropped to about 120. A lot of people dropped out because it was too damn difficult for them, and they switched to less technical majors like "Business Information Technology" or "Management Information Systems." Almost without exception, the people who dropped out are now managing teams of developers, they actually have programmers reporting to them. Seriously, WTF?

This isn't even the worst of it, there are people who majored in art history who are now "product managers," who take the word "manager" in their job title literally, they think they're above developers. Some of them will even profess with no small amount of pride that they "know nothing about technology." You can hear the pride in their voice when they say it, as if they're saying "I'm a lot of things, but at least I'm not a geek." Is there any other field of study where people boast with such pride that they know nothing about it? I mean, very few people will say "I know nothing about history" or "I know nothing about literature", and if they do say it, they'll say it with a bit of humility. When it comes to Computer Science though, knowing nothing about it is almost a badge of honor.

Rant the f**k over.

I'm drunk and I'll probably regret this, but here's a drunken rank of things I've learned as an engineer for the past 10 years.

The best way I've advanced my career is by changing companies.

Technology stacks don't really matter because there are like 15 basic patterns of software engineering in my field that apply. I work in data so it's not going to be the same as webdev or embedded. But all fields have about 10-20 core principles and the tech stack is just trying to make those things easier, so don't fret overit.

There's a reason why people recommend job hunting. If I'm unsatisfied at a job, it's probably time to move on.

I've made some good, lifelong friends at companies I've worked with. I don't need to make that a requirement of every place I work. I've been perfectly happy working at places where I didn't form friendships with my coworkers and I've been unhappy at places where I made some great friends.

I've learned to be honest with my manager. Not too honest, but honest enough where I can be authentic at work. What's the worse that can happen? He fire me? I'll just pick up a new job in 2 weeks.

If I'm awaken at 2am from being on-call for more than once per quarter, then something is seriously wrong and I will either fix it or quit.

pour another glass

Qualities of a good manager share a lot of qualities of a good engineer.

When I first started, I was enamored with technology and programming and computer science. I'm over it.

Good code is code that can be understood by a junior engineer. Great code can be understood by a first year CS freshman. The best code is no code at all.

The most underrated skill to learn as an engineer is how to document. Fuck, someone please teach me how to write good documentation. Seriously, if there's any recommendations, I'd seriously pay for a course (like probably a lot of money, maybe 1k for a course if it guaranteed that I could write good docs.)

Related to above, writing good proposals for changes is a great skill.

Almost every holy war out there (vim vs emacs, mac vs linux, whatever) doesn't matter... except one. See below.

The older I get, the more I appreciate dynamic languages. Fuck, I said it. Fight me.

If I ever find myself thinking I'm the smartest person in the room, it's time to leave.

I don't know why full stack webdevs are paid so poorly. No really, they should be paid like half a mil a year just base salary. Fuck they have to understand both front end AND back end AND how different browsers work AND networking AND databases AND caching AND differences between web and mobile AND omg what the fuck there's another framework out there that companies want to use? Seriously, why are webdevs paid so little.

We should hire more interns, they're awesome. Those energetic little fucks with their ideas. Even better when they can question or criticize something. I love interns.

sip

Don't meet your heroes. I paid 5k to take a course by one of my heroes. He's a brilliant man, but at the end of it I realized that he's making it up as he goes along like the rest of us.

Tech stack matters. OK I just said tech stack doesn't matter, but hear me out. If you hear Python dev vs C++ dev, you think very different things, right? That's because certain tools are really good at certain jobs. If you're not sure what you want to do, just do Java. It's a shitty programming language that's good at almost everything.

The greatest programming language ever is lisp. I should learn lisp.

For beginners, the most lucrative programming language to learn is SQL. Fuck all other languages. If you know SQL and nothing else, you can make bank. Payroll specialtist? Maybe 50k. Payroll specialist who knows SQL? 90k. Average joe with organizational skills at big corp? $40k. Average joe with organization skills AND sql? Call yourself a PM and earn $150k.

Tests are important but TDD is a damn cult.

Cushy government jobs are not what they are cracked up to be, at least for early to mid-career engineers. Sure, $120k + bennies + pension sound great, but you'll be selling your soul to work on esoteric proprietary technology. Much respect to government workers but seriously there's a reason why the median age for engineers at those places is 50+. Advice does not apply to government contractors.

Third party recruiters are leeches. However, if you find a good one, seriously develop a good relationship with them. They can help bootstrap your career. How do you know if you have a good one? If they've been a third party recruiter for more than 3 years, they're probably bad. The good ones typically become recruiters are large companies.

Options are worthless or can make you a millionaire. They're probably worthless unless the headcount of engineering is more than 100. Then maybe they are worth something within this decade.

Work from home is the tits. But lack of whiteboarding sucks.

I was tutoring a Freshman, its something you must do at my uni and I saw his code. He said he stopped working when he changed text editors...

God damn, its like the aftermath of a tornado

The stupid stories of how I was able to break my schools network just to get better internet, as well as more ridiculous fun. XD

1st year:
It was my freshman year in college. The internet sucked really, really, really badly! Too many people were clearly using it. I had to find another way to remedy this. Upon some further research through Google I found out that one can in fact turn their computer into a router. Now what’s interesting about this network is that it only works with computers by downloading the necessary software that this network provides for you. Some weird software that actually looks through your computer and makes sure it’s ok to be added to the network. Unfortunately, routers can’t download and install that software, thus no internet… but a PC that can be changed into a router itself is a different story. I found that I can download the software check the PC and then turn on my Router feature. Viola, personal fast internet connected directly into the wall. No more sharing a single shitty router!

2nd year:
This was about the year when bitcoin mining was becoming a thing, and everyone was in on it. My shitty computer couldn’t possibly pull off mining for bitcoins. I needed something faster. How I found out that I could use my schools servers was merely an accident.
I had been installing the software on every possible PC I owned, but alas all my PC’s were just not fast enough. I decided to try it on the RDS server. It worked; the command window was pumping out coins! What I came to find out was that the RDS server had 36 cores. This thing was a beast! And it made sense that it could actually pull off mining for bitcoins. A couple nights later I signed in remotely to the RDS server. I created a macro that would continuously move my mouse around in the Remote desktop screen to keep my session alive at all times, and then I’d start my bitcoin mining operation. The following morning I wake up and my session was gone. How sad I thought. I quickly try to remote back in to see what I had collected. “Error, could not connect”. Weird… this usually never happens, maybe I did the remoting wrong. I went to my schools website to do some research on my remoting problem. It was down. In fact, everything was down… I come to find out that I had accidentally shut down the schools network because of my mining operation. I wasn’t found out, but I haven’t done any mining since then.

3rd year:
As an engineering student I found out that all engineering students get access to the school’s VPN. Cool, it is technically used to get around some wonky issues with remoting into the RDS servers. What I come to find out, after messing around with it frequently, is that I can actually use the VPN against the screwed up security on the network. Remember, how I told you that a program has to be downloaded and then one can be accepted into the network? Well, I was able to bypass all of that, simply by using the school’s VPN against itself… How dense does one have to be to not have patched that one?

4th year:
It was another programming day, and I needed access to my phones memory. Using some specially made apps I could easily connect to my phone from my computer and continue my work. But what I found out was that I could in fact travel around in the network. I discovered that I can, in fact, access my phone through the network from anywhere. What resulted was the discovery that the network scales the entirety of the school. I discovered that if I left my phone down in the engineering building and then went north to the biology building, I could still continue to access it. This seems like a very fatal flaw. My idea is to hook up a webcam to a robot and remotely controlling it from the RDS servers and having this little robot go to my classes for me.

What crazy shit have you done at your University?

Bittersweet moment today, the interns last day was today, the improvements they made over the last 4 months, putting up with my “Gordon Ramsey” style attitude... definitely goes down in the books as one of best groups of freshman interns. They all truly thanked me for what they learned I sat them down and did a code review with them... but fooled them and showed them code they wrote 4 months ago.. they totally forgot about.. and couldn’t believe it was their own code.. that’s the level professionalism and improvement they made writing embedded software in 4 months.. they can’t wait to for next summer, neither can I.
Even had some of the electrical interns asking our department manager if they could switch to more software focused during their next rotation. Just so they can be under me.
I may be hard and a dick at time... but they learn! And it says a lot when you have college students impacted enough and see other students benefit so much that the “outsiders” wanna switch majors or focuses.!

*taking interviews of freshmen for the computer club in college*

Me: What languages do you know?
Freshman #1: C, C++.
FM #2: C, C++.
FM #3: C, C++.
...
FM #83: C, C++.
FM #84: Hindi, Tamil, Kannada, English.

I shot myself in the head after that last one.

"You claim you are a developer and don't know what firebase is? Pfft"

Words uttered by one of my classmates flexing on some 4th semester college inmates. I don't know what's more annoying his squeaky voice, the pretentiousness of using headphones as a necklace during class or that I was just like him when I was a freshman (minus the low hanging fruit flexing).

God fucking damn, I'm not even mad at his obnoxious pampered kid semblance, it's the irony of this enlightened fago falling into the god forsaken rat race. Why?

Because he hasn't been magnanimously disappointed by one of the most corrupt systems I've ever been witness of, yeah keep talking about firebase to the teacher who just nods pretending she knows what you are talking about.

I've had this same teacher before and your nice asynchronous ES6 express nosql solution will come last compared to all the WordPress templates she'll approve because they are pretty and all the time you invested, yeah, right into the crapper, seriously it would've been more satisfying to just masturbate everyday until Christmas break. I'm not pissed at him, annoyed by his semblance maybe, but I actually pitty him because the system will take a big shit on his face and he's just smiling.

Damn it, all these careers ruined by lazy ass professors who think leaving a shitload of diagrams as homework counts as teaching. And before any quirky brother interjects with "oh maybe your University is shit", "muh University verry gut u suk", you shut the fuck up! I know my university sucks even tho is "one of the best ones" by the corrupt media's standards, I'm here to vent about issues, real fucking issues happening in real corrupt systems, I'm taking about professors sexually abusing students, not going to classes, no centralized teaching systems, fucking chaos.

I'm happy for you if you feel good about the piece of paper you hang on your wall that certifies you as Bobby the guy who not only learned a shit load about computers, he also bent his ass so far for us and payed us so much money for it, it's funny he thinks himself as smart.

I know, I know, you went to an ivy league college, have a wonderful job and owe some money, good for you, some are not so lucky and I'll make sure those lazy asses who take advantage of the system lose their jobs.

I'm so sick of this shit we call "moodern educashion"

Some freshman at my school used inspect element to change some HTML and he thinks he's a hacker now. Lmao

When I was in school I had some guys walk up to me and asked:

G: Are you Feeno?
Me: Yes, what's up?
G: We need our FY project on school management system done.
Me: Okay?
G: How much will that cost us?
Me: *confused because I was still a freshman. At that point the only programming language I knew was elementary qbasic. I couldn't even write a hello world program without the help of Google*
So played along because yes we're talking about money here.

Me: It will cost you guys N amount of money (*improvised deep voice*).
G: Okay. Fair price.
* Right there they transferred half the requested amount to me. *
Holy moly! This guys aren't joking around. I don't know shit! They clearly mistook me for a senior student whose first name is Feeno, to me that was a nick referred to me by my friends.

I'm in this one for sure and it's a do or die transaction cus I'm returning no fucking money. I told my friends what had happened and they insisted I return back the money to the students and admit I can't deliver the project they were requesting.
Fuck all of yah! I'm keeping this money. Same afternoon I visited the school library with the intension of writing the code using the help of YouTube tutorials. I didn't find anything useful for qbasic as I thought I could write a full fledged school management system using qbasic.

I was lucky enough to find an existing source code on Codeproject, God bless that Indian guy. The source was in PHP and the tutor gave a step by step guide to setup XAMP and MySQL. I really don't know PHP but I guess source code modification is a natural skill to all programmers as I was able to modify the code to meet the requirements of the students (i.e school name, logo and other minor changes).

Most of what I learnt in programming came from modifying the source of that project. I learnt how to connect a PHP source to a MySQL database, I learnt about functions and their usage, I learnt the basics of HTML, I really learnt a lot and I would say that the speed at which I learnt was proportional to the amount of pressure I received to deliver.

That was how my journey as a full stack developer started. By chance maybe.

noob misconception #378: during my first internship the summer after my freshman year, i was under the impression that if i used 1000 threads, my job would finish 1000 times faster. needless to say, my machine crashed in a second, and my manager thought i was an idiot when i was surprised it didn't work

LONELINESS IS REAL
I am a freshman in a university ( about to complete my first year ) with a girl to boy ratio of around 1:10. During my first semester I was spending a lot of time with friends, chatting up with people and making connections. Due to this my productivity as a dev, if I am even capable of being called that decreased ( I was not a developer before joining , but I had an aim of being one , esp at least the best in my batch ) after 1st year. In retrospect I did nothing productive till 3 months out of 4 in my first sem and the guilt hit me hard . During the last month I had to catch up with my much neglected studies and all I had done was a little bit of html and css, and barely scratched the surface of js( please don't judge me for this :) , I had to start somewhere < although I learned a little bit of C++ > ). BUT I WAS A HAPPY CUNT, and had no sign of lonelines. Now during this sem , I had made progress ( learn js with es6 syntax and still learning, did c++ and extended my knowledge ) . Currently I am working on my Vue full stack app ( along with express and some websocket library , TBD ) < yeh I learnt some backend too > , and increasing my knowledge of dsa using clrs. Although my productivity has increased manifolds but I know feel the need of closure. I am kinda happy with the fact that I know a lot of people around here ( thanks to my extroverted 1st semester ) but sometimes it hits me hard at night when I don't have a monitor to drown my eyes and thoughts in. I have increased my academic performance too but I need someone to share and express my feelings with. I could have made a girlfriend earlier but now most of them are taken and I have lost touch. But believe me, all I want is a companion to spend these lonely days and night ( not talking about as a friend ). Staying away from home isnt easy you know...m :(

KUDOS TO DEVRANT FOR DEVELOPING A COMMUNITY WHERE PEOPLE LIKE ME CAN FEEL SAFE IN OUR NATURAL HABITAT. I COULDN'T HAVE EXPRESSED MY FEELINGS ANYWHERE ELSE EXCEPT IN A PERSONAL BLOG ( where no one would have read it )

PS1: I apologise if I sounded arrogant about any of my skill, I didn't mean that way. I ain't even that good, just kinda proud of myself a little for achieving something I couldn't have thought.

PS2: Any type of suggestions and help is much appreciated ( considering I am a college student who went into some serious development 4 months ago , I am pretty impressionable ;) )

PS3: Please don't confuse this with depression. I am HAPPY BUT LONELY

PS4: Is there a way so that I can change my username?

Rant! ✋😜👍
When a rookie is trying so hard to behave like she is a god damn expert in programmng! 😏🙊🙈

I am tired of toxic politics at work.

Signs of a toxic workplace:

* (good) decisions are discouraged rather than encouraged.
Someone wants to introduce a great optimization and guess what the reply is (often from someone IT-ignorant): wait a minute, you can't do that because we have all these nifty little hacks and if you dare to suggest change to our shitty system, we could not allow that! We want to stay in our comfy zone, no no!

* no one can make a decision unless Mr. favorite-developer-everyone-likes says it's a good idea. And even if he's wrong, no one cares to listen to anyone else's idea on it. Stupid Feudalism. One man decides over the entire codebase. That's just idiocy. Where's TEAM in there?

* thinking years of experience equals intellectual capacity. It certainly does not! There are senior developers with 15 years of experience who don't even know how to open commandline, or they didn't even know about Chrome developer tools, or how the HTTP spec is built. That shit just makes me cry inside. How can you give these peoples the title of senior when they know less than a freshman year kid?!

* ignoring people's education and/or capacities. "You just graduated, so you're a noob". Right, I know more than you, you idiot. You've demonstrated your ignorance often enough. Stupid ignorant colleagues.

* blaming politics (every team blames the other team and there's constant tension)

* roaming ignorance (no one in the company, and I mean no one, besides me, knows enough about Information Technology to make competent decisions or analysis)

Politics:
What gives testers the idea that they know more than other members of the team? Why do they treat devs like they are mentally challenged?
What gives PO's that same idea?
What gives managers the idea that they can just yell at developers and threaten them with time pressure? Yeah, because the customers are breathing down their neck.

Just because I am a Junior Developer, that makes me stupid? I am tired of no one caring to listen to my ideas. I could save the company at the snap of a finger but everyone ignores my opinion (and often facts) on things.
People come in and instead of asking me for help, they ask everyone else for help, including the people who don't know shit about IT; now that's insulting.

Anyway, toxic politics.

!dev

Just went to freshman orientation for my masters degree, meet a lot of profs. Let's just hope I could get through all the papers that I have to write and publish

When the freshman comp sci major who thinks HTML is programming learns about the dev tools in browsers.

!rant
I can never get over this 😥

We were taught 5-6 subjects of electrical or mechanical engineering in out freshman year 😃 and our course is called "computer science and engineering".
We had ONE subject in the whole fucking year that was related to the course,called "introduction to computer"!!!!
The second semester of the freshman year had no subject remotely close to computers, but yeah we learnt about thermodynamics and beams and Trusses and motors and welding 😒.
They should have also told us what we are supposed to do with that knowledge 😒.

What's the point!!!!
Will is make us a mechanical engineer 😒?
Also have you forgotten we are here to learn about computers and not about the tension in the rope of the pulley 😒?
Also we have no subjects,in the 4 year course about actual development 😃 not even old school web development.
Fucking hate this shit

JavaScript is the ugly girl freshman year with glasses and acne. Typescript is the beautiful women she became senior year and won prom queen. Hate on JavaScript all you want because it was a language written in 2 weeks but the new releases with es6 and now typescript are a far cry from the js people were written back in the day. The times they are a changing -Bob Dylan.

I just remembered something I did like freshman year of high school lol

So our school system had just adopted a new site blocking program. It did even better than the one we had used before it.

Literally every good site to play games was blocked, and it really pissed me the fuck off. I had an easy class that was in a lab, and I finished my work early literally everyday, so I played the games to kill time.

Finally I got fucking fed up, and I made a site using weebly where I put the games I wanted to play on it. This way I was in control of it, and I had all the game files on a flash drive, so if it got blocked, I could just keep making new ones.

It actually got to the point that after a week, a few of my friends were using the site daily as well, and they kept asking for games to be put on it.

Simpler times man, simpler times.

So one year ago, when I was second year in college and first year doing coding, I took this fun math class called topics in data science, don't ask why it's a math class.

Anyway for this class we needed to do a final project. At the time I teamed up with a freshman, junior and a senior. We talked about our project ideas I was having random thoughts, one of them is to look at one of the myths of wikipedia: if you keep clicking on the first link in the main paragraph, and not the prounounciation, eventually you will get to philosophy page.

The team thought it was a good idea and s o we started working.

The process is hard since noe of us knew web scraping at the time, and the senior and the junior? They basically didn't do shit so it's me and the freshman.

At the end, we had 20000 page links and tested their path to philosophy. The attached picture is a visualization of the project, and every node is a page name and every line means the page is connected.

This is the first open project and the first python project that I have ever done. Idk if it is something good enough that I can out on my resume, but definitely proud of this.

PS: if you recognize the picture, you probably know me. If you were the senior or the junior in the team, I'm not sorry for saying you didn't do shit cuz that's the truth. If you were the freshman, I am very happy to have you as a teamate.

Le college freshman nibbas: Don't know C, Java, C++, python or any other programming language but want to do AI and machine learning!

💀🤷

Overconfident cocky freshman studying a 300 level AI course, now pulling off an all nighter for an assignment due the next day which I still have no idea how to complete. FML

Checked out my college’s robotics team today. I was the only girl in the room, and I feel like I won’t make any close friends like I did in high school. I want my awesome high school robotics team back... 😢

Oldie but goldie.. after my studies, I was looking for my first job and did interviews. In one of the companies, they asked me whether I knew C. Well yes, I had been programming in C. Ah no, that wasn't enough - they asked whether I was really good in C. I got suspicious and argued that there was the project documentation anyway, right? Turned out, no. The code was the documentation, as I had suspected.
Then my question - as freshman, mind you: "Do you have any plans to get to a more professional way of developing?"
The interview was pretty much over at that point, the boss got actually angry. Well, interviews work both ways, and he had failed. I surely dodged a bullet.

As a freshman at a college, I am fascinated by the sheer lack of knowledge of Engineering Students in their fourth year. I had always thought I'd find more interesting people here. I'm disappointed.

“I thought since you majored in CS you could totally do that.”

Destroying my self esteem since freshman year.

My very first wow, was back in 2011 as a freshman at university, algorithm classes. Our first language was Pascal, (because it was easy to learn and get to the idea of programming.) so, lecturer wrote Hello World! and that moment was the best part, when I realized that was called a program. After all these years I still remember this output. ❤️ awesome.
After this, its injected in my veins and soul. Even when I come home drunk or coming from the friends, I open my macbook and trying to write some cool , nerdy staff.

Its my life, my passion, my hobby. I dropped everything for this. ^^

Long story short, every time I feel amazing when I do something new and interesting.

me: * is on Devrant at school*
teacher: what's devrant ?
me: it's where I go to complain about you
teacher: ...
yea. so fun story, my first computer science class I took freshman year where I knew more about programming than the teacher, not to mention most of the people in that class had 0 interest in actually learning computers

Freshman out of the university started working for me as a php developer. Software Engineer from a major Australian university. First project, a WordPress plugin... Two weeks down the track I had to explain to him the concept of sessions and multiple visitors. WTF are they thought at universities these days?

These ignorant comments about arch are starting to get on my nerves.

You ranted or asked help about something exclusive to windows and someone pointed out they don't have that problem in arch and now you're annoyed?

Well maybe it's for good.

Next comes a very rough analogy, but imagine if someone posts "hey guys, I did a kg of coke and feeling bad, how do I detox?"

It takes one honest asshole to be like "well what if you didn't do coke?".

Replace the coke with windows.
Windows is a (mostly) closed source operating system owned by a for profit company with a very shady legal and ethical history.

What on earth could possibly go wrong?

Oh you get bsod's?
The system takes hours to update whenever the hell it wants, forces reboot and you can't stop it?
oh you got hacked because it has thousands of vulnerabilities?
wannacry on outdated windows versions paralyzed the uk health system?

oh no one can truly scrutinize it because it's closed source?

yet you wonder why people are assholes when you mention it? This thing is fucking cancer, it's hundreds of steps backwards in terms of human progress.

and one of the causes for its widespread usage are the savage marketing tactics they practiced early on. just google that shit up.

but no, linux users are assholes out to get you.

and how do people react to these honest comments? "let's make a meme out of it. let's deligitimize linux, linux users and devs are a bunch of neckbeards, end of story, watch this video of rms eating skin off his foot on a live conference"

short minded idiots.

I'm not gonna deny the challenges or limitations linux represents for the end user.

It does take time to learn how to use it properly.
Nvidia sometimes works like shit.
Tweaking is almost universally required.
A huge amount of games, or Adobe/Office/X products are not compatible.
The docs can be very obscure sometimes (I for one hate a couple of manpages)

But you get a system that:
* Boots way faster
* Is way more stable
* Is way way way more secure.
* Is accountable, as in, no chance to being forced to get exploited by some evil marketing shit.

In other words, you're fucking free.
You can even create your own version of the system, with total control of it, even profit with it.

I'm not sure the average end user cares about this, but this is a developer forum, so I think in all honesty every developer owes open source OS' (linux, freebsd, etc) major respect for being free and not being corporate horseshit.

Doctors have a hippocratic oath? Well maybe devs should have some form of oath too, some sworn commitment that they will try to improve society.

I do have some sympathy for the people that are forced to use windows, even though they know ideally isn't the ideal moral choice.
As in, their job forces it, or they don't have time or energy to learn an alternative.

At the very least, if you don't know what you're talking about, just stfu and read.

But I don't have one bit of sympathy for the rest.

I didn't even talk about arch itself.
Holy fucking shit, these people that think arch is too complicated.

What in the actual fuck.

I know what the problem is, the arch install instructions aren't copy paste commands.
Or they medium tutorial they found is outdated.

So yeah, the majority of the dev community is either too dumb or has very strong ADD to CAREFULLY and PATIENTLY read through the instructions.

I'll be honest, I wouldn't expect a freshman to follow the arch install guide and not get confused several times.
But this is an intermediate level (not megaexpert like some retards out there imply).

Yet arch is just too much. That's like saying "omg building a small airplane is sooooo complicated". Yeah well it's a fucking aerial vehicle. It's going to be a bit tough. But it's nowhere near as difficult as building a 747.

So because some devs are too dumb and talk shit, they just set the bar too low.

Or "if you try to learn how to build a plane you'll grow an aviator neckbeard". I'll grow a fucking beard if I want too.

I'm so thankful for arch because it has a great compromise between control and ease of install and use.

When I have a fresh install I only get *just* what I fucking need, no extra bullshit, no extra programs I know nothing about or need running on boot time, and that's how I boot way faster that ubuntu (which is way faster than windows already).

Configuring nvidia optimus was a major pain in the ass? Sure was, but I got it work the way I wanted to after some time.

Upgrading is also easy as pie, so really scratching my brain here trying to understand the real difficult of using arch.

So I just got into computer science College after a long period of being exited as all hell. Letting my dreams run wild with all the people that I'll meet and how we'll share information and debate over serious issues. less than a week into college I find out that people don't know shit and some of them are asking : "where are the brackets on the keyboard" while others ask what's the difference between Gmail and mail...............
I was devastated. (still am)

!rant
Freshman at college watch me using vim and say I'm a masochist, always laughed it off...but after paying for the PWK OSCP course today, I think they may be right.

Hell and below here I come.

During my university days, we had a basic programming quiz. One of the questions is to "write a program that will determine if a number is even or not".

An annoying seatmate asked me silently if his answer is correct. Then I saw his window:

=========================
> Enter an even number: 10
> The number is even.
=========================

I told him it's correct.

After the test his answer is marked as wrong.

"You told me it's correct!", he said to me.

I approached the professor, and told him that his answer is correct.

"What if I enter 3?", professor said.

I told him, "User Error".

How many of you use the right data structures for the right situations?

As seasoned programmer and mentor Simon Allardice said: "I've met all sorts of programmers, but where the self-taught programmers fell short was knowing when to use the right data structure for the right situation. There are Arrays, ArrayLists, Sets, HashSets, singly linked Lists, doubly linked Lists, Stacks, Queues, Red-Black trees, Binary trees,.. and what the novice programmer does wrong is only use ArrayList for everything".

Most uni students don't have this problem though, for Data Structures is freshman year material. It's dry, complicated and a difficult to pass course, but it's crucial as a toolset for the programmer.

What's important is knowing what data structures are good in what situations and knowing their strengths and weaknesses. If you use an ArrayList to traverse and work with millions of records, it will be ten-fold as inefficient as using a Set. And so on, and so on.

> Wants to learn something new (pref not JavaScript)
> Can't find anything that's as dope as Spring boot (java framework).
> C# sucks
> Python ain't going anywhere
> PHP is dated
> Go sounds like a good choice but so damn non-useful if you don't do ultra concurrent stuff at google

Ends up getting more used to JavaScript
Suggestions? For summer learning... Freshman year.

I actually only started programming a little less than two years ago. I entered my freshman year of college as a mathematics major, but as time went on I ended up enjoying coding in C++ much more than trying to work out partial equations.

I have since become fascinated with many aspects of computer science, mainly web development and systems programming (I discovered Linux and the command line only a year ago and I'm practically in love). I've since been working for a couple fairly new startups with duties from developing a mobile native app in AngularJS/Ionic to migrating content to new servers and developing custom themes on WordPress. I have deep, deep aspirations of eventually being employed by Google as a Senior Software Dev (although I'd definitely prefer working for a company that would allow 100% remote work 😁). I've even finally began developing my own projects, ranging from a URL shortening service to a basic online encyclopedia.

I wanna spend the rest of my life doing this shit. Hell, I hope I die at my computer.

I reached out to a developer who's site was being contracted out to Amazon devs, because when their site launched it had a couple of security issues. This was his response:

"An additional thought/opinion... Just because a college freshman from Arizona wasn't too hungover to make the effort to notify us and take the liberty of classifying this as a security issue for us doesn't mean we need to take their word for it."

Hi you ☺
Can you help a freshman on devRant to get more ++
Thanks 💛

I just had to quit a part time programming job because I couldn't do it. I'm not really sure how I feel, there were alot of factors.

I took an internship about a year back to do some embedded C. I kicked ass and developed a system that really solved alot of problems for the company and so people started giving me "the hard back shelf problems". Like those problems that are really valuable if someone can get it working but not so important that it blocks anything day to day. Totally fair work for an intern, that is both complex and interesting.

When school started I took a part time remote role working on one of these problems. Fast forward to now (few months of remote work at school); i can't handle the stress. If I devote more time to work I fail a test. If I ace a test my work duties go neglected. On top of that my boss misses scheduled calls with me left and right, I even reminded him everyday 3 days before hand once!!!

Naturally I started feeling like I should quit. I was no longer interested in the work from a pure academic view, and emotionally hated doing it. However, since I was a good performer this place offered to interview my little brother!! Fuck, so do I choose my happiness or my brothers. It feels evil to choose myself over my brother. My brother, he's just a freshman so I know his odds are very low of getting an internship this year are low. And the place I worked at had some weight in the name so I could seriously jump start my little bros career. I do know however that if I don't quit that I will fail school, and do it while being miserable.

And so I quite my first remote job, from my first internship. I feel happy about, but also like I let someone down (them?, Me?, BROTHER?).

at the very beginning of League of Legends (I was freshman in high school) my friend and I wanted to create a team. we needed a website for it and I learned the basics. I stop playing but I never stop programming

You constantly see these professional profiles with labels such as 'Expert'/10 years experience/senior/CTO/CIO/Consultant.

Isn't it funny when you go and work with these people in the field, they appear to be frauds? How can these people legitimately have these titles and know less than a snotty freshman year student? Their knowledge is so poor, a 14-year old with basic Windows and Javascript knowledge could outmatch them. If only this weren't true.

I think it's very unfair because they attract employers and they even get hired, while some of us with veteran knowledge in several fields don't get considered for a job.

May I add that it's always the funny guys who get a job. Apparently being a relatable frat bro at an interview is more important than having priceless expert knowledge.

How it feels when you help an older student fix their code and you’re a lowly freshman

In freshman year at college, 1992, I met a guy with a fancier computer than I had. The dude was awesome as a C coder and already had a job as one. He let me use it to play around with Persistence of Vision Raytracer which was an open source 3D scene generating language/platform. His computer was also what I used for accessing BBSes and IRC chat rooms for the first time. I was hooked from then on.

when you're teaching the freshman, and they're flipping out over trying to understand c compiler errors, while you think to yourself "just wait till that first bug that only breaks something sometimes but you don't always notice..."

Goals before wk200:
0. Get the hell out of this Geophysics faculty and transfer to Computer science faculty in university which I was dreaming of since I was high school freshman.
1. Meet my girlfriend. (I'm in long distance relationship and there's a huge ocean between us).
2. Get to be able to learn probability in Math so I can understand AI topic.
3. Get better money from my amazon business.
4. Get better sleep.
5. Stop being so scared of dentists and go fucking fix my tooth that hurts.
6. Lose weight.
7. Don't buy video-games that I'm not going to play after a week and forget about it.
8. Listen to the Math lectures.
9. Stop feeling the need to kiss the girl that sits next to me in university (Which is by the way my BFF ).
That's all I can think of yet.

<notarant>
Just got my class schedule for freshman Computer Science. Find out they teach C++ for Programming 101. Guess I should stop using C for the next couple months and buy a C++ book.
</notarant>

Hey everyone. I am a freshman in college studying Cyber Security. I have been practicing various programming languages such as httml, css, java script and SQL. Does anyone have any recommendations for resources to study? My end goal is to be blue teaming for my schools Cyber Defense team in the fall.

During my freshman fall semester in college in my intro to Java class, the professor gives us an assignment and says we need to submit it, so I print it out and try to submit the code on paper. Is it my fault he didn't specify how to turn it in?

Making cheat codes with cheat engine -> making games with game maker -> learning Python freshman year of high school -> ap computer science -> 75% of a computer engineering degree and 2 internships, soon to be 3!

I'm almost a programmer!

Lol. Had an exam in college a few weeks ago which involved designing a website on expression web. The Dr responsible for the subject dropped my file and gave me a 0 as a grade and said : "well it's not my fault I lost your file." I laughed so hard XD. Still has a 0 though Lmao.

TLDR : do you have any tips for lack if motivation / interest in a project?

So I recently got my very first job (R&D). and to give you some context I'm a freshman at college with around a year of experience with programming. so a job like this is amazing for me. it pays well, I work from home, and get to work with nice people. Been working for 4 months now but lately have been loosing interest tbh. For the past month or so I haven't been putting as much effort into the project and I have no idea why. Does anyone have similar experiences with lacking motivation/interest? If you do I'd love to hear from you.

In my freshman year of college, I ran into a grouping of circular dependencies that were so intertwined it would have warranted a total rewrite. I spent 28 hours fixing it. I took over my dorms common area, had about 5 movies playing on repeat for background noise, and stayed in the same seat for the whole period.
It was rewarding, but also showed me how easily I can get tunnel vision on a task. Now that I've graduated and moved on to a real job, I have certain back ups to make sure I don't forget to eat or take my breaks. I almost got in trouble for not taking them when I first started.

So I've recently got into college after programming for years by myself like many guys here, the thing is I was expecting to find some guys like me so maybe we could start some project or something like that but oh boy, freshman software engineer students are the "best": Don't give a fuck about coding. Most of them are gamers who think that just because they're gamers they can make a videogame (hahaha) and the worst part is that the only student of them who already have a lot of experience in programming is so fucking arrogant and annoying that I'd rather change majors before doing a project with him.

There are two other guys who are also really interested in programming and one of them already have quite a lot of experience too but they're on different majors...

College being disappointment since the first month: Check

Warn: long rant is long

So for the past couple of weeks I've been frustrated/confused over my thesis course with the kids gloves the professor gave us. This week I found out that in actuality this class isn't just for the IT majors, but a mix of Software Engineering majors, IT majors with minors in the SE department (me), and Information System majors who do product management but don't know much about coding anything.

As a result, we have this really strange set of discussions going on where on one hand we have the professor giving the okay to students making a website in !!Wix because they don't know much about HTML and CSS, to students like me busting ass to get a Java/MongoDB/Bootstrap web application off the ground from scratch.

I'm not as nearly upset as a I was, but it's still a really bizarre thing to lump these two departments together and getting it all coherent. The SE and IT majors is a much easier fit as there's so much overlap between the two that it's next to impossible to see any difference, it's the IS majors who are off in their own little world.

One thing is relieving to me from all this. I've realized I didn't need to major in Software Engineering to become a competent software engineer. It's amazing what one can self teach in 2 years to get the equivalent knowledge and skill sets. In the end this makes it all up for when I dropped out Computer Science in my mid 20's.

It's jaw dropping to me how much my perception of the education system for STEM has changed from when I was freshman to being a senior.

Worst tech I've ever used?
My freshman applications.

Why?
The tech support sucks.

I was royally screwed when my college changed major language from Modular-3 to Java in my junior year.

They were so different in the beginning, I spent weeks trying to figure out this OOP principle.

Please give non-freshman students heads up before making such drastic changes on what you teach...

Let's go down the memory lane back to freshman year in college as a Computer Science student in my Intro to Programming class....

I remember I was lost as to how the professor created this simple variable below:

int a = 5;

I had no idea what was going on there. haha. looking back to it and seeing the projects I'm working on now puts a smile on my face..

I asked questions. Even the dumb ones and that's what helped me to now..programmers always ask mates or search.

Do you guys care to share yours?

Back when I was a freshman in high school a friend of mine put an emulator on the shared drive, so we could play NES games while in the computer lab. Didn't know better/didn't care. One day I get pulled out of class and walked into the computer guys office. In there is also the principal of the school and the Chief of police.

The computer guy tells me there was an issue last week that caused the school server to crash and it caused damage. I asked what happened and the he said one of the emulators we were playing had a script that crashed the server and caused damage. I asked how much damage and they informed me it was over 3 thousand dollars. At this point I'm very skeptical that the damage was worth about the cost of a new workstation (the old one sitting on his desk, buried in boxes), and afterwards none of the faculty knew of any kind of an outage. I asked for him to show me what broke and what had to be done to fix/replace the damaged equipment but all I got was a simple, "I'm sorry. I can't show you that at this time."

They threatened legal action for a felony of damaging a school property. Myself and the other tech savvy kids talked about it over the next couple of days wondering what would happen. They threatened expulsion for myself and a couple of other kids, but ultimately just got a talking to about keeping personal information safe.

What I got out of it was if they think I'm good with computers I must be doing something right. Now I'm in IT. This is where it went wrong.

Friend suggests I find volunteer work as a Java developer at summer. I'm a freshman, what do you think?

Being a university student who is about to complete his first year, is being a google certified mobile web specialist worth it?? ( More about my background : I have been into front end developement for around 4 months and this has been my first exposure to " production level coding ". I have been improving my JS skills and am currently learning Vue. I have a fair understanding of backend and am trying to build a full stack app using express, Vue and sockets . I have an interest in algorithms , dsa and machine learning although I an not able to devote my full time on it but hopefully would be able to do it in 2 to 3 months. I also have an interest in Linux and all. ). Please suggest something . Thanks in advance.
PS : I know my interests are very random , but I am just exploring my options and being a freshman , I am confused A lot . So trying to figure out something that will help me in future too

what is the point of me being here i do nothing but sit in my room and do absolutely nothing. i have no car. i have no job. i have no money. i cant do shit i cant go out with my friends bc it’s always i need money to anything. i’m not good at school i’m so fucking far behind i’m practically a freshman i have no point in even doing anything i’m so useless. so easy to replace i just want a life. i want to live in the city so i can get a better job or even a job at all i wanna go places do things get a car and a job see the boy i’m so in love with. but i cant i’m so trapped in this house it’s not even funny. i have no phone as soon as i leave the house. i cant call or text anyone important. i wanna graduate. move out. go to cosmetology school. live with the love of my life. start a life. move on with this shitty one i’m living now and pay for my own things. but until then i’ll just dream and dream about everything i could have and do. i wish i was that kid who had money who got handed a car from there parents and got to leave the house with no troubles like how am i gonna pay for this or who’s gonna get me how am i gonna get there and back. i want nothing more then to just be happy and be accomplishing things but i can’t. i am the worst daughter ever.

The fun part of my job is showing off my age to make the point that they need to build new things in new technologies. Typical interaction goes something like this.

Person: When we started X project, we were using the state of the art technologies. We can just use that again.
Me: And when was that?
P: About 2012
Me: I was a freshman in high school.

Recently attended an interview. The guy was some random company consultant. Job description was for spring-boot (also required templating engine experience). He was asking me whether I know angular and JEE (completely different and kinda opposite of the job desc). That's a bummer but good thing I've messed around with these once or twice so I know whatsup.

Also, who the fuck has already got 7 programmers and wants to double up to 14 by only adding university students to the team (after teaching them angular and jee for a month, but whatever, its only a fucking month), in order to complete a new project with tight deadlines?

I don't think I'm sticking with this one...

It annoys me immensely when I struggle with myself, criticizing my own lack of knowledge in certain areas and my colleagues say: "You'll learn by doing". No, I won't, that's a foolish dogma.

I won't and I have never learned by 'doing'. The best results I've obtained have been through understanding every last bit of what's under the hood of a particular functionality. I'm not going to understand the white box by constantly probing the black box, it's just unsatisfactory and insufficient information. It's even dangerous to base yourself on the black box results because you often might get false positives.

I got through university by massive multilateral sensory focus: kinesthetic (writing things down), auditory (listening to the professor), visual (observing graphs and models of the material taught), conscious (mentalizing it all and interlinking information so that later it's accessible from long-term memory). I can confirm this is necessary for the brain because a Neurologist once told me just that.

At least for me, I had the most horrible grades (D's and F's) in freshman year with the 'learn by doing' method and the best grades (A, A+) with the multi-sensory method in later years as I matured my studying methods. In fact, with that method I've continuously outsmarted other people who had 10 years more experience than me ('experts', 'consultants',..) but they preferred to stay in the ignorant 'bro zone' rather than learning things properly. Even worse, the day they arrived on the scene, they completely broke the production environment and messed it up for the whole team. I felt like banging my head on my desk. It just makes me disappointed in the system.

If you follow popular method, you'll soon find yourself in the same problems that arise from doing what everyone else does. What happens at that point? That's right, they have to call in someone who actually bothered learning things.

I implore ANYONE... please...

Have you EVER written a SINGLE Jest test that didn't have some sort of bullshit spewing stuff like this:

"ReferenceError: You are trying to `import` a file after the Jest environment has been torn down."

"Warning: React.createElement: type is invalid -- expected a string (for built-in components) or a class/function (for composite components) but got: object. You likely forgot to export your component from the file it's defined in, or you might have mixed up default and named imports."

and yet running on a device, features work flawlessly and quite well, no errors or even warnings in sight logged

This is the most fragile pile of garbage I have ever seen.

I hate this.

inb4 your stupid ass todo boilerplate garbage you wrote tests for in freshman year. i'm talking about a REAL app with HUNDREDS of components.

where the grownup testing tools at? it's a question I've still not answered after a year of fucking around with this framework

I am a freshman in college and my group(which is assigned because our numbers are in sequence) is a fucking piece of shit and everyone is a low life who didn't give a flying fuck when i tried to discuss project ideas and shit.

So we have our final project submission tomorrow and the grade depends on how much you learnt and contributed to project more so than how much it succeeded.

And now one of these fucking faggots has the audacity to call me and ask "Hey what do i tell the examiner when he asks about what i did to enhance the project?" Meaning ' how do i steal your credit uWu?'

Trembling with rage i cut his fucking call.

i left my phone on silent and i have 19 missed calls from these stupid fucks in the past hour.I am gonna make them fail this year. BEST FEELING EVER!

Went for an internship interview today

Interviewers= tell us a little about yourself

Me thinking haha I can mention the time I took a 300 level course in my freshman year (have ranted about this) and show them I can take up a challenge = I'm known in my batch for not making smart decisions

Interviewers = sarcastic clap

What the actual fuck,no why why would I even start off like this fucking shit what even am I stupid what even. Great job man great job.

Had my first "it's working but I don't know why" moment. Freshly out of the basic courses in university I stumbled into my first project, side quest: got an xml file written with XStream which needed to be re-read by JAXB. Never worked with any kind of XML before and now after a lot of swearing at the computer I did it. It's working, I'm getting my array list with Elements out of the goddamn XML yay!

Nugget starting tomorrow. Full of energy and hope... I'm not sure whether to treat her the way Picard treated Wesley, or the way Sergeant Hartman treated Pyle...

So I was reminiscing about my hs and uni yrs and thought of the teachers in my hs Sr yr and my uni freshman and semester abroad. I went to business school in uni but freshman year was all classes in the general subjects like calc n physics that everyone had to take no matter what school you were in.

So feels like all that time in bschool was a waste... No memorable moments at least.... Only take away perhaps is maybe I'm a slightly better investor but for that I probably got more from reading interesting classics than from the classes....

Didn't happen to me, but to a friend. It was freshman year of college and we were taking an intro engineering course where we had to take apart an old camera and replace some gear in the camera with one we designed ourselves to change the shutter speed. We were split into groups of 3 and had to submit our first lab report detailing our design plan by week 2 into the quarter. Right before the due date, one of the kids in my friends group DROPS OUT OF COLLEGE because he thought the project (2 weeks in) was too hard, leaving my friend and her partner to finish his third of the report that he didn't do. They didn't even get a third partner for the remainder or the class. Two people had to bear the work of a quarters worth of assignments meant for groups of 3. Thankfully they were able to do everything and got a passing grade in the end.