(context: I'm from Germany)

The interview was going well, their developer and I had good talks about their stack and projects, I thought I was making a good impression.

Then the HR guy had some Qs. He went through my CV, wanted to know why I left company X and what I did at company Y. He seemed quite impressed with the work experience I already had (the job I was applying for was an entry level position).

For education I had an entry at a university. "courses in computer science". He asked:

"And you finished the Bachelor's degree, right?"

Me, "well, no. I stopped after about 2 semesters. I'm a self-taught developer, all my skills..."

HR guy interrupts

"So, no bachelor's degree?"

"No, but I figured out that I am a much better learner outside of university and that I don't want to go into research."

"Thank you for coming in, we'll get back to you soon."

...

As a conclusion: I learned that german companies are still very traditional and search for employees with degrees. They don't understand how you'd know stuff if you don't have a degree.

Good thing: we also have international companies, which are happy to welcome enthusiastic and self-taught developers.

Hi everybody! I wanted to share this with y'all.

Yesterday I got my Master's Degree, I'm finally free from University!

The moment when you're failing the university, you desperately wish to drop out of it and your parents push you to inhuman amounts of things to get you to finish the bloody thing when not even a bachelor's degree will ever help you in anything and it seriously wasted 5 years of "studying" about things in food technology that were there in the USSR. I think you failed to notice that 26 years have gone after that. More years than my age is, basically, and the tech has moved forward so much I will never be able to utilise at least 80% of what I was "taught". Yeah, it's nice pretending you're somehow smarter than everyone else in your room when you have a degree like that, right?

I'm studying at a professional college right now and it's 11 AM to 5 PM five days of the week. How am I supposed to be able to combine a university that never helps one even fucking slightly if you have a job or something similar? And it also insists that it won't take away grades if you don't go there, but simultaneously it actually does that. I'm the type who cannot be made to do something in some cases even if there is no other way perceivable.

I just want to get a goddamn job that pays, but I need something that gives me salary of at least about 1000 USD equivalent to just be able to hopefully rent a small flat and have some money to spare.

Now I have to be going to the college. I might end up getting my PC taken away from me a THIRD time since me and my friends built it. And it's only been a bit more than a year since that :|

Did I tell you my age? 23.

And these people(my parents), think they can bitch, moan, take things away from me(the things that helped me all my life to not go insane from their actions), then scream at and even hit me if I don't act 100% the way they want me to.

AND THEY WILL SAY THEY WANT ME TO SUCCEED AND THAT THEY STAND FOR MY FREEDOM.

If there is some force that can help me out of this, I summon thee!

/endrant.

Sorry for that. I needed to have that out of my system.

The university system is fucked.

I've been working in this industry for a few years now, but have been self taught for much longer. I'm only just starting college and I'm already angry.

What does a college degree really mean anymore? From some of the posts I've seen on devRant, it certainly doesn't ensure professional conduct, work ethic, or quality (shout out to the brave souls who deal with the lack of these daily). Companies should hire based on talent, not on a degree. Universities should focus more on real world applications or at least offer such programs for students interested in entering the workforce rather than research positions. A sizable chunk of universities' income (in the U.S. at least) comes from research and corporate sponsorships, and educating students is secondary to that. Nowadays education is treated as a business instead of a tool to create value in the world. That's what I signed up for, anyway - gaining the knowledge to create value in the world. And yet I along with many others feel so restricted, so bogged down with requirements, fees, shitty professors, and shitty university resources. There is so much knowledge out there that can be put to instant practical use - I am constantly shocked at the things left out of my college curriculum (lack of automated tests, version control, inadequate or inaccurate coverage of design patterns and philosophies) - things that are ABSOLUTELY essential to be successful in this career path.

It's wonderful that we eventually find the resources we need, or the motivation to develop essential skills, but it's sad that so many students in university lack proper direction through no fault of their own.

Fuck you, universities, for being so inflexible and consistently failing to serve your basic purpose - one of if not the most important purpose on this earth.

Fuck you, corporations, for hiring and paying based on degree. Fuck you, management, for being so ignorant about the industry you work in.

Fuck you, clients, who treat intelligent people like dirt, make unreasonable demands, pull some really shady shit, and perpetuate a damaging stereotype.

And fuck you to the developer who wrote my company's antipattern-filled, stringy-as-all hell codebase without comments. Just. Fuck you.

PEOPLE. DO NOT LIE ON YOUR RESUME. IT. IS. NOT. WORTH. IT. Ok, backstory.

We had a guy apply for this position at work. It really needed to be filled but also required someone with just the right certifications, so hiring the first schmuck to come along Was not an option.

We search high and low and as time passes without an acceptable applicant we become more desperate and open to negotiation. Basically, you name your price, we’ll agree to it at this point.

So finally a guy comes in, got everything we need but one minor certification. No problem. He can get that on the job, he doesn’t need it to start. He’s hired.

So he quotes us a salary 10% above our top range of what we’d usually pay a guy for this position, we don’t care. He gets it. Plus a housing allowance.

So we’re getting him registered with a place to handle his certification process and they call his four year institution to verify his transcript. We work with hazardous materials and a four year degree in a relevant field is required. It’s standard for the certification training institution to check. Especially when it’s a prestigious big name place like this guy had. And here I used to think that was paranoid of them.

They call and tell us the school says they have no record of him. We do some digging. He was never registered there. I’m like “that’s not possible, his professor is a listed reference. We call that reference.

He worked on a project with this man, he never taught him. Is very fascinated to learn this man has been presenting himself as though he attended the university. Asks to be delisted as a reference.

So long story short it comes out this guy did have a degree in this field, just from a less prestigious university.

The insane thing is, he would’ve still gotten the same job and salary package if he’d been honest about his university!

It is a loss for all involved. He doesn’t have a job. We don’t have anyone working in this position. It’s really unfortunate. Don’t lie on your resume people. Your employer will find out and the risks are not worth the benefits.

Dropped out of college. Got a job. Happily earning while doing what I love doing.
I still meet wise asses who tell me “...but you should still go back and get a degree...just to be safe”.

Shut the fuck up guys, just SHUT THE FUCK UP AND FUCK DEGREES

A conversation between me and a girl who is a university topper from CS degree.

It's those annoying bugs that keep you employed, not your university degree

(As a CS student in University)
Teacher 1: I am a new teacher and have an electrical subject and I know you guys hate this and love coding so we will code whatever we study in python so you can actually understand what we are studying

Teacher 2: I am a senior teacher and have an super important computer science subject , I will fuck everything up come to lectures read a ppt that I didn't even make and read the ppt in the most monotonous manner humanly possible and fuck everything up and steal your work if your research with me

Working for an indian code sweatshop. The job you've got by bribing the University headmaster to give you a degree without ever attending class. Your uncle who worked at the sweatshop as a manager already gave you the job by bribing his boss.
After a half a year on the bench you've beeing sent off for a contract for the USA. You moved to Seattle where you've "coded" the software for the Boeing 737 Max Airplane. Your code downed 2 airplanes. You're responsible for the death of 350+ people. You're alone and the US is foreign to you and you're missing your mothers indian food. And you wish you could soothe your pain with some freshly pressed sugar cane drink and a jalebi from your favorite food joint back home.

I quit my job last week and I’m starting as a full time mobile developer in January. I’m so goddamn excited.

With no university degree, I’ve finally gotten an in as a developer!

The education system is a fucking joke. How do you get through all the required courses and get to the capstone course where your one goal is to build a simple prototype of a project(like a simple website) for a real world client and not know HTML or CSS when you spent a whole fuckboy semester on a class dedicated to HTML, css, JavaScript and the teacher gave you the PHP. Not only that but you can't even figure out how to use a simple google search to look up the documentation on any of these topics or even the easy to follow tutorials littering the internet on how to use Bootstrap which is what we're fucking using to make it faster to develop the core logic of our app but all you fucking want to do is take shortcuts and create a PowerPoint presentation in google slides and make an easy project look like shit and make me and yourselves look like shit. But don't fucking worry, I'll code the whole thing in a fucking night because you didn't do your part of taking care of just the front end and planned for your incompetence and lack of questions or help. I know you're busy looking for a job for after you graduate but you can't even answer a simple programming question. Let me give you the solution on how to reverse a string, cuz you don't remember c# but it literally takes 30 seconds to google the solution that is everywhere. My project team is why no one takes a degree from this university seriously.

Why are we still having degree vs autodidact arguments/debates?

It's fucking 2018, who gives a flying fuck how you learn?

Stop giving a shit about how people learn and give a shit about their abilities and skills.

I'm tired of people from both sides (people with degrees and autodidacts) acting like they're better than the other. Stop being arrogant cunts.

Some people have the self control and motivation to teach themselves.

Congratulations! That's fucking awesome.

Others don't and could use a structured environment like University to motivate and encourage them.

Hey it happens. At least you're trying.

My god. Just stop with this shit already. It's annoying and unnecessary.

If you made it this far, how's your week been going?

This is something that happened 2 years ago.

1st year at uni, comp sci.

Already got project to make some app for the univ that runs in android, along with the server

I thought, omg, this is awesome! First year and already got something to offer for the university 😅
(it's a new university, at the time I was the 2nd batch)

Team of 12, we know our stuffs, from the programming POV, at least, but we know nothing about dealing with client.

We got a decent pay, we got our computers upgraded for free, and we even got phones of different screen sizes to test out our apps on.

No user requirement, just 2-3 meetings. We were very naive back then.

2 weeks into development, Project manager issues requirement changes

we have a meeting again, discussing the important detail regarding the business model. Apparently even the univ side hadn't figure it out.

1 month in the development, the project manager left to middle east to pursue doctoral degree

we were left with "just do what you want, as long as it works"

Our projects are due to be done in 3 months. We had issues with the payment, we don't get paid until after everything's done. Yet the worse thing is, we complied.

Month 3, turns out we need to present our app to some other guy in the management who apparently owns all the money. He's pleased, but yet, issued some more changes. We didn't even know that we needed to make dashboard at that time.

The project was extended by one month. We did all the things required, but only got the payment for 3 months.

Couldn't really ask for the payment of the fourth month since apparently now the univ is having some 'financial issues'.

And above all: Our program weren't even tested, let alone being used, since they haven't even 'upgraded' the university such that people would need to use our program as previously planned.

Well, there's nothing to be done right now, but at least I've learned some REALLY valuable lesson:

1. User Requirement is a MUST! Have them sign it afterwards, and never do any work until then. This way, change of requirements could be rejected, or at least postponed

2. Code convention is a MUST! We have our code, in the end, written in English and Indonesian, which causes confusion. Furthermore, some settle to underscore when naming things, while other chooses camel case.

3. Don't give everyone write access to repository. Have them pull their own, and make PR later on. At least this way, they are forced to fix their changes when it doesn't meet the code convention.

4. Yell at EVERYONE who use cryptic git commit message. Some of my team uses JUST EMOTICONS for the commit message. At this point, even "fixes stuffs" sound better.

Well, that's for my rant. Thanks for reading through it. I wish some of you could actually benefit from it, especially if you're about to take on your first project.

An un-rant on Universities. (UC Irvine)

A lot of my friends and I are about to graduate 👨‍🎓 from UCI, with Computer Science degrees.

Most of them are complaining that they don't know any current frameworks, and all that we learned is outdated.
And that pretty much any bootcamper knows more tools that any of us do.

I totally disagree. I don't think it's the university's job to teach you tools (node, tencerflow, ...), rather, I think they made us into programming Swiss Army knifes. I can pick up any framework (I wanna be a web dev) real easy, and when shit breaks down, I can easily figure out the issue.

I think that's the major difference between Computer Scientists and Bootcampers/Programmers. We know "why", while they know "how".

What do you think? Is the current price of a CS degree worth it?

I graduated last weekend. Walked in the commencement ceremony, took pictures, posted a !rant here, the whole 9 yards. Then what happens? I get an email from the dean of the engineering college at my university stating that my degree check was done incorrectly and that I am 3 credit-hours short of graduating, it is too late to sign up for an intersession course, and there are now 3 credit-hour courses offered as 8-weel courses. So here I am, with two Job interviews coming up, without my degree, wondering why the hell I found all this out A WEEK AFTER I "Graduated"! DA FUCK!!!!!

Just shouted to my boss: "You have a degree in CopyPaste issued by the University of Clipboard"

:joy:

He's trying to edit some HTML tables and got lost... he also has this notion that he can do our job...

Lol

This is going to be a rant, but personally, I'm pleased with the outcome of my life now.

I was part of a community for a few years and decided to help them out with my knowledge of programming Lua nearly 2 years ago since they lacked developers for the project itself.

Since it was sort of a custom language that they modified how Lua worked on it, it took me a bit to adapt, but within a few weeks, I was pretty fluent in this so-called custom language they had. Began working on some major updates, additions, removals, and just optimizing this code base. It was a pretty old code base and needed a good chunk of love.

A few months later, I've implemented loads of features, optimized the base whenever I could, and then things start taking a turn for the worse. We get new 'developers' who haven't ever coded the language, and worse they couldn't afford to provide them development servers thus they ended up breaking my servers. I helped them and they learned, they were decent, but now the Seniors and CEO's of the project began to take a toll on me.

I was told that this community had a reputation of driving out developers, ruining their reputations, and that is what started happening. I started getting questioned if I was loyal to helping them, that I've become lazy, even though they were explained I've had mental health issues for a few years and have been hospitalized multiple times.

These sort of attacks kept happening for months, and then they finally pushed my buttons, where I was talking to another Senior of how we should redo the base since it's just so massive and a few tiny updates to the base take a few days to implement across the entire code. What instead happened was that I went to sleep, and this Senior told the CEO I was going to steal the code base and go sell it...

I woke up to messages of how the CEO is all pissed off, and that this what the Senior said. At this point, I started responding with, fuck it. I was so sick and fucking tired of their bullshit. I was the only fucking competent developer, and I did more work in the few months I was there then some people did in 2 or 3 years.

A few hours later I decided to go chat with the CEO and explained what was truly brought up, and he just brushed it off like I was lying. At that point, I lost it. I told him why the code base was horrible since he hired stupid ass developers. He didn't know how to code. People wanted certain items, and he wouldn't be able to add them for fucking months and players sit there making fun of it. Some people state the only differences they see within the code is the code I've done. Basically, he was an incompetent fuck that said he knew what he was doing, and had all these big plans for the future yet couldn't listen to the only competent developer and fucking claimed bullshit.

Now a few months have gone by, I'm looking at their community and it's basically dead with no proper updates except for copy and paste updates claiming to be custom coded. While I'm working on my real life businesses (Which are currently being a headache, but within the year should resolve its issues), starting University for my Computer Science degree here soon, and even considering building my own game here.

Basically, karma is a bitch and that's why when you get loyal people in your life, keep them. (Writing this at 3 am after a few drinks, hopefully, it made sense, I think it does.)

Anyways, goodnight everyone.

Realising if you'd only studied a degree in computing, you would be useless in the real world as a developer

"yes, a university degree isn't necessary to become successful, but that doesn't mean you can waste your time playing games or watching youtube for half a day.

stop complaining about the system and get your ass to work. do something, anything. stop fucking around with your life."

...is what i told a friend and he hasn't messaged me for 2 weeks. i see him on discord all the time, playing runescape or some shit.

i'm 24 and he's 22. he dropped out because he was too lazy to go to uni every 2 days.

A close friend of mine is in his third term in university studying software engineering, asked me how did I land my first job so quickly after graduation.

His question made me stop for few seconds and ask myself, how would my life would've been without Coursera , Udacity, codeacademy and css-tricks.

I literally spent 2 years wasting time in uni then I discovered these sites and started learning while studying just enough to pass subjects that really has no benefit for the future whatsoever.

Even with subjects like data structures and AI, which should be interesting, it was 40℅ theory and the practical part was to complement the theory part, it was never for real world examples.

Kinda feel bad for my friend because he'll end up feeling the same frustration I went through at university.

Even now a year after graduating I feel that the only benefit of my degree was legal.

When would this silly system change ? If university courses can be specialized like online courses wouldn't it bring better talent to the market? And why governments don't take action towards this?

I have this one chick on Twitter that she used to be a fellow classmate of mine while I was going for my Bachelors degree.
She would always bitch and complain about how the teachers we had were horrible at teaching. I had to interact with her because of one assignment and EVERYONE in the team was good and well with the items, we finished it rather quick (build a terminal emulator) and we were just thinking about ways to make it look cooler. It was challenging to be honest, but everyone was so interested in it and had all the materials requires plus a very nice instructor to go with that would be overly happy to answer questions and provide additional content, the instructor in question made no book requirement for the class and provided instead free resources, be it video content or his own code on the matter to make sure that everyone got it.

Dude was amazing (most of my university instructors were truly fascinating or people that had worked for very interesting projects) and so when she complain that the guy "had no idea how to teach" I decided to investigate a little.

You see, she had NEVER taken any consideration that maybe you should advance your studies in the field, particularly in programming, by doing your own fucking research. No, the professor is not supposed to hold your fucking hand while you are trying to understand how a fucking function IN FUCKING PYTHON works, dude gave a full length lecture and the only retard that did not understood the topic: was you. He went to you to help you and instead you gave the man an attitude because for some fucking reason he was accounted for your own fucking stupidity. Motherfucker was there for more than 30 minutes trying to explain to this dumb chick the nuances of def hello(): return "hey there" and for some fucking reason you were too daft to understand that.......

The chick complained to us in the team how because of work she had NO time whatsoever to dedicate to reading programming or general software engineering materials......yet her twitter was FULL of book reviews concerning novels and self help books and bullshit like that.

If you are like that, and blame it on your teachers: fuck-you.

To this day she still bitches about the teachers from time to time, I legit told her once that she had no business attending a C.S degree.

Do you think you can get into Julliard without ever touching a fucking instrument? no. Do you think you can tell some Terence Fletcher-throwing-a-chair-at-your motherfucker to show you how to position your hands on a drumstick or what keys to press on a piano? FUCK NO.

If you were being DAFT on a ProGraMmiNg101 for which they picked Python to be the language to use and blamed your fucking stupidity to a teacher then yet again: FUCK-YOU

People telling me what to do. I am 19 yo. I havent got into university, i have passed the bachelor's degree exam with 83.5% in computer science, i am employed in web development and i like it. Im not even thinking about going to university for now, not even getting a driving license, the stress is too big for now. I love traveling by bike. I enjoy listening to heavy metal and hard rock and I love peace more and i enjoy talking with people.
The biggest hurdle is people who tell me "do that because everyone does". And I'm not talking about my mom. She supported me everytime. I'm talking about people who doesn't belive in someone's knowledge and bothers the others. It's good if you give me advice and talk with me about it, but never be strict about that advice.

I used to think I was so clever by viewing the source code of websites, and would just scroll through it for fun, but what really got me started in programming was the TI-83 calculator I got in grade 10.

You couldn't view the code of most programs on that calc without a computer connection, but I managed to get my hands on the source code of something simple and learned how to prompt for values and calculate things with them. Before I knew it, I was making little programs in BASIC that did formulas for me (Area/circumference of a circle, etc.). One of my professors caught me showing my calculator to another student in class, and assumed I was being a bad student. When I said I made a program as a shortcut for one of the formulas we were learning, she tried to call my bluff and said to write the whole program on the whiteboard for the class to see. 10 minutes of writing and more than one blank stare from my classmates later, the teacher just waved me off and continued the lesson. I was chuffed :-). I made these simple programs for all my math classes throughout high school.

Unfortunately, my first year of university I took a CS course, and my teacher was probably the worst I've ever had in my life. I decided it wasn't for me, and though I did maintain my general aptitude for tech (and was still the person who fixed everyone's printers and viruses), I took a different path, eventually getting an Arts degree in Anthropology.

Where I live, the market for this is more than stale. In fact, it's completely flat, so I thought I would take a course about programming with Arduinos for fun and see if I should return to school for a different certification. It was AWESOME! I made a wireless weather station with Xbees and sensors and built my own anemometer.

I got a job at a manufacturing company, and had the fortune to build a robot which eventually made it's way to the second season of Battlebots. The level of intelligence and enthusiasm I encountered really inspired me, and now here I am at 31, halfway through a BSc in Computer Science and working for a company that makes 3D printers.

It's been a long journey, but the adventure always starts anew tomorrow.

Fml... you keep getting the weekly discussions right on point.

I started with the last guys right out of university... just out of Hospital.

With a brand new degree and a Crohn’s diagnosis I stepped into the first place I found hiring. They were good guys, after a junior dev... to get stuck in their muck.

I did! I nailed project after project, tricky development after tricky development. I spent 5 years with them and over those years things changed.

They had a mass cull... the original idea was to get rid of the useless middle managers, the ones managing other managers being managed by another manager for no real reason.... the ones that do fuck all with their day.

But the fucking idiots upstairs put the job of working out the cull in the shitty middle managers hands.

So, instead, they cut the titles senior, junior and everything in between. Everyone was just a thing, no senior things, no junior things. Just things.

Once they’d done that they said “we’ll we have this many things, they’re all the same, let’s get rid of the things with the highest pay checks because the other things can do it just as well for less money”...

And that’s how they cut 50% of their senior techs.

I was one of the ones left behind but the damage became obvious quick. The middle managers barked out orders at people who couldn’t complete them, and everything went to shit.

My team was rebranded twice in as many years... an obvious ploy for funding, but the cost of the team fluctuated like hell because contractors had to fill the senior positions at 3 times the cost.

Then the managers started barking out Self contradictory orders. Do this, but this way...

This would work, but not that way... try explaining that to a group of non-technical, useless as fuck middle managers. It took months, and shit flows downstream so we got the bulk of the hassle for it.

Then my boy Morpheus, got a warning... they threatened his contract for saying “this will work, but not that way”.

He kept the contract, and the manager giving him the warning said he didn’t think he should... but he, and all the middle fuckwits don’t have the balls to stand up against nonsense.

That was the breaking point for me, I handed in my notice and told them a month was what they could have.

I didn’t have a position or an idea of where to go, a few long-standing offers as back up in a pinch but not the perfect job.

On the Thursday I decided I was done, I let my manager know. Then I boshed the fuck out of my CV and updated my profiles.

My phone started ringing off the hook, a senior NG2/MEAN/Ionic dev on the market is like candy to recruiters. They’re lovely too.

I went to a few interviews that were okay but not great. Then a company got in touch... one that I immediately recognised as an IT book publisher. They said they were looking for NG/NG2 devs, senior. winner! Set up the interview.

So I’d spent the weekend with the missus, about an hour away from mine and 2 from the interview. I hadn’t planned on staying there but at 6ish she looked over at me and said “do you have to go” <- imagine that with puppy dog eyes from a gorgeous Slovenian lass.

I folded quicker than a shitty pancake toss.

We spent the night together but that meant I had to be up at 6, to go back to mine, iron my interview clothes and make it to the train to manage the interview. Fuck. I did it, but I was at the interview wired on caffeine and struggling to be awake and coherent. I still managed, that’s what I do, I make do and try to do well regardless of the situation.

That comes from being ill btw, when you’re dealt a shitty hand you learn to play it well.

They were good guys, the heads all knew what they were on about, not the middle management bs I was used to.

They demoed me live with an ng1 test, which was awesome as hell to play with.

We chatted, friendly and cool guys! I loved the place.

The end of the week they got me in for second round. Ng2 and competence test, again I went for it!

Positive feedback and a “we’ll get back to you ASAP, should be by Tuesday”...

Tuesday was the Tuesday before the Friday I was due to leave the old company... I was cutting it close.

On the Monday the offers started rolling in, a few C# ASP MVC positions, cool but I was holding out for the guys I’d interviewed with.

Then Tuesday comes around, I’m nervous as fuck but it’s okay because I knew regardless I can pay the rent in December with one of the offers.

Then said yes!

The thing that seemed most important in the process was my ability to talk to any fucker. If you’re coming up to interview, talk to everyone, the grocer, your barista, the binmen, anyone. Practice that skill above all others.

I start tomorrow morning! I can’t wait.

Final thought: middle managers are taints.

My non-tech friend was looking into a degrees guidelines for N.C. State University and they recommend C++... she thought C++ was the grade she needed to average to get that degree. 😂

I am a 29 year old with about 10 years of development experience under my belt. I have what most would consider to be a senior level job that pays well for someone who is self taught and never attended college or university.

Recently I have had the urge to obtain a formal education. I don't really have any need or reason to, but the urge is still there.

I know there are a ton of respectable and very talented devs without diplomas. Any of you ever regret not perusing a degree? Would you see any benefit it pursing one late in your career?

Waiting for a answer, of the University i applied for (master degree) is like:

I need to check my mails
*5 minutes later*
I need to check my mails

They said, they will answer between 15th july and 1th september..

"How useful was your CS degree and why?" - I studied CS at university, my education always was incredibly useful.

Firstly, the knowledge you gain in itself is useful. Furthermore, we explain and understand the unknown in terms of the known. Thus, the more you know, the easier you learn new things.

But secondly and more importantly, university teaches you *how* to think. In a structured way, like a scientist or engineer. To see the bigger picture.

I originally wanted to end here, but I've read a couple of entries doubting the usefulness of any CS degree.

Our profession isn't all that different from others. It is, however, relatively young. How's this for an analogy: We're still in the stage of building sand castles. That's fine, and can be self taught. But in years to come we'll want to build bridges and sky scrapers, which are not just "sand castles scaled up". Our sand castle knowledge won't help us here. Sky scrapers need entirely different materials and a good understanding of architectural statics.

Can you still teach that yourself? Maybe. Will a formal education with a degree be useful and generally more trusted? I bet.

First day of the academic year(CS):

(some uni official) - "And remember to become a good programmer you have to become an excellent mathematician first"

(Me): Oh shit.

Little did I know...

It is a second year now. And the only course I failed is the one that he lectured.

I had no fucking idea that people like this (mad)man exist.

Almost at every lecture he was introducing at leas one topic that was way beyond our program; as he thought they were interesting and "fun".

Many teachers at the University refered to him as a very 'ambitious' man. Then I didn't blame him he truly loved his profession and wanted to share as much knowledge as possible(I thought).

But two months ago he went to far. It was a second exam(for those who failed the first one). And believe me there were a few(60 out of 160 to be exact).

Only ~30 people showed up as the rest failed to many courses and would be kicked out of the uni anyway.

He was handing out the exams when I saw that whoever gets one slowly starts turning white.

I finally got my copy and immediately I realized that the tasks are from his favorite topics, the "fun" ones. 🤦

At this point I knew that it will be extremely hard to pass. But when I was reevaluating my life choices something draw my attention.

One of the tasks had a note below it: "Homework after the exam: It is a very interesting problem just assume x instead of y and try to solve it. PS: it is a lot of fun!"

At this point I lost it.😠 I don't care how much you love math, you should always assume that not everyone loves it as much as you do. So don't push it down the throat of people who clearly don't need a degree in this subject!

Now I'm preparing for the second semester with this guy. And I have a strong feeling that it will be hell of a ride... again.😐

BTW: Sorry that the rant is so long, it's the first one I wrote, and had to share it with someone 😀

!rant

Is a bachelor's degree worth it?

Context:
Up until yesterday, I was planning on not getting a Bacherlor's degree related to programming. I'm currently an intern and I believe that they'll want to keep me afterwards. Even it they don't, my old boss has a junior developer position opening soon and he asked me if I was interested.

I think I'm a good programmer, but I'm not here to boast, but rather, I want to know your opinion:
Is getting a bachelor's degree in software engineering worth it?

I know this topic is not new and has been asked in many forums, but I noticed a repetitive trend: people who have the degree say it's worth it and people who don't say it's not.

TL;DR:
Is getting a bachelor's degree in software engineering worth it? Why?

A rant about people in general:

I am sick of people not caring, not giving a fuck, not valuing others.

Studying CS this is something I noticed the past year: people tend to not acknowledge that there are other human beings around them.

Some are just focused on getting their degree done and dusted as fast as possible, which is fine.
Some are working to pay the rent or student loans, which is fine.
Others just do their thing, code their stuff, criticize other's code... which is also fine.

But nobody's realizing they're interacting with other people! Other living, feeling human beings. For them it's just about getting it done.

And not just at university.
I've started seeing it everywhere.

At the job I'm working, people in the shops and on the streets.

I don't get it. We are all human on this rocky sphere in space. Why do so many not care for each other?

It makes me sad.

My worst experience ... and best, was when the company I worked for sent me to teach OOAD to the faculty of the Mathematics and Computer Science department of a University in Pennsylvania. There I was, a guy with no degree teaching a group of PhD's the fundamentals of OOAD. Imposter Syndrome? You bet. Nervous? Yes. My mouth felt like it was filled with cotton, and when I picked up a cup of water on the first day, I had to put it back down because my hands were shaking so badly. I could handle a room full of developers, but for me, this was a whole other league. As it turned out, the professors had a blast, and gave me great reviews, but that first day of a five day class was a doozy. After that, I knew I could handle anything.

My college teaches us perl now😑

Being in a college whose curriculum is 10 years old is fucking sick.

I mean really 10 fuckin years old.. Dude this is computer science field, shit changes so fast here, new languages, new standards, new frameworks and these guys don't give shit about that.

Wasting so much of my time attending these shit classes because i have to maintain 75% attendance in every subject or else i wont be allowed to write an exam.

FML

I recently accepted my first "real" Dev position. This has been a huge hurdle for me.

So my degree is in graphic design and it's pretty much what I spent the first 2-3 years after university doing. In fact, when I started at the place I am now (I am still working my notice) I was hired as a creative artworker.

I had always had a website I put together with some basic frontend skills, but always assumed the backend stuff was "beyond me". But, given the option here, I asked to be sent on a PHP course. Holy shit I took to it like a duck to water. Over the next few months I got my feet wet building a new website for the company, building out a little intranet, all that good stuff. I went from procedural spaghetti monstrosities to nice, OOP, documented code. It was beautiful. And no one here really have a fuck.

About 6 months ago, I started trying to leave. This was hard. I actually had several interviews for design positions, but always got turned down for some variation of "you're very technical and we think you'd get bored here" and thank god really, because they're right. I could never get a look in for Dev jobs though, because on paper I had no experience, hell my job title was still "Digital Designer" despite over a year of developing here.

But it finally happened. Through someone I used to know I got my foot in the door for a developer position. In the interview they even told me if it was a junior position they'd hire me on the spot - but sadly it wasn't. I had a good time though, a good laugh, and had a lot of fun finally, for the first time in my life, "working" and talking with other developers.

Over the next couple of weeks the agent kept telling me I had done really well and they were just dragging their feet getting things sorted, but I gave up hope a little. So imagine my surprise when I found out they turned the role into a junior one for me!

And so now, I get to go to a job where my job title includes the word "Developer". To some of you that might not mean much, but to me it's a fucking medal I wish I could mount on a plaque on my wall.

Simply having a university degree is not a reasob for a bigger salary comapred to a non degree. Its just a school where you learn some of the stuff you need on the job. Therefore if you prove that you know the same it is the same. Same work same salary.

- Think YOU'VE got a personality complex? I'm a software engineer who majored in marketing.
- Think YOU'VE got a phobia about failing? I wrote a book on developing for Google Glass. And tech edited another on Hailstorm.
- Think YOU'VE got self-confidence issues? I had a run of 7 straight rejections by companies in the Fortune 500.
- Think YOU'VE got reservations about flexing your certifications? I held a MCP in FrontPage.
- Think YOU'VE got paranoia about your degree? My MBA's from the University of Phoenix.
- Think YOU'RE a glutton for punishment? I - Think Android Content Providers are a good idea.
- Think YOU'VE got a confusing skill set? A hiring manager told me I was "too passionate about technology to work here at Microsoft".
- Think YOU'VE got issues with intellectual property? I was given a cease-&-desist order for the first domain I registered.
- Think YOU'VE got false bravado? I had over 400,000 followers on Google+.

While all of these are hilarious quips and great social ice breakers, they're all 100% true. Enjoy your day. ;)

Fuck my country's universities, fucking greedy assholes that ruin lives, suck wallets and sucks life from the young.

I'm currently studying something completely non related to programming: History. And I really love it. I love reading 1000 pages for each test and essay and talking about the problem of naming the Cold War a war and cold and etc. The problem is that I won't make as much money as I would make even as a self taught developer.

After considering my possibilities, I thought I could enter the computer science carreer. I don't know how this works in other countries but here you would have to study 3 years of an engineering common plan and then specialise in some sort of industrial engineering while getting an specialisation also in computer science. After some counting, I got to the conclusion that I would be studying 6 years (or more), and wasting half of those years learning stuff that I would never use nor care about.

But that's not all. This semester I took the introductory class for programming. It's pretty basic stuff but at least they teach a little bit about algorithms and problem solving. It turns out that a friend of mine that's about to graduate from computer science applied as a helper for the prof. I was so excited I could finally talk with someone about code!

Since the start of the semester I have been passing a lot of time with him and talking about the future. Turns out he doesn't understand shit about code but somehow he learns everything by hard and has passed every computer science course without having any practical abilities. I don't blame him, he's studying hard and playing by the rules, and turns out that he has wasted precious time of his life also learning biology, chemistry, structural engineering, hidraulic engineering, transportation engineering and a ton of engineerings that he won't use.

If the university would instead take that time to teach better courses of practical programming or leave him some time to try out the stuff he learns by hard, he wouldn't have to hear me talking about stuff he doesn't comprehend but feels that should, and wouldn't be utterly depressed, he wouldn't take SIX years to learn less than what he could learn in less than THREE years. And this isn't just a random university, it is one of the 2 best universities we have here and was in 2014 the best of all Latin America.

And wait, here comes the best part. In my country, levels of education are heavily stratified. After school, superior studies give different titles according to the time you've been studying. Yes just the time. And these titles are what your employers will see to give you different work positions. So for studying a 2 year carreer you get a technic job which pays well but not too well, then at 4 years you get a license title which only proves that you know stuff, then at 5 or more (depending on what you are studying) you get a professional degree and will get payed as a full fledged professional. So here, even though in other countries it takes 6 years to have a masters in engineering, they give you just the engineering degree, and it would take 2 (or more) more years to have a master. Even though you can totally teach engineering in 4 years, here they take BY LAW 2 years more, while paying what a fucking full stack of pairs of kidneys would cost in the black market.

So fuck that shit, I won't be throwing my money at any university. I hope they get reformed soon becouse this is fucking dumb, really really dumb. Like 2 year old shit dumb. I'll just learn a bit more, make some projects until I have a decent portfolio and apply to some company that cares for real knowledge and not just a piece of paper with letters and a shitty logo on it.

After a year of college give everyone 2 hours to solve a programming problem in the language of their choice. Like implement a doubly linked list, or count the number of primes between two integers or something straightforward. Anyone who can’t do it gets kicked out of the major.

I’m sick of dealing with people who are 3 or 4 years into a CS degree, and can’t do 30-line programming assignments in two weeks. I might have to work with one of these clowns someday and I hope to God that my university doesn’t send them into the workforce with a degree.

I started writing code at a young age, nodding games, building websites, modifying hex files, hacking etc... I started my career off tho in highschool writing embedded code for a local medical robotics company, and also got tasked with building the mobile app to control these robots and use them for diagnostics, etc.... this was before the App bubble, before there was app degree and that bullshit.. anyway graduated highschool, went to college to get a comp sci degree.
Wanted to teach for the university and research AI...

well I dropped out of college after 3 years, cuz I spent more time at work than in class. (I was a software consultant) in the auto industry in Detroit. I wasn’t learning anything I didn’t already know or could learn from books or a quick google search.
I also didn’t like the approach professors and the department taught software... way none of the kids had a good foundation of what the fuck they were doing... and everyone relied on the god damn IDEs... so I said fuck it and dropped out after getting in plenty of arguments with the professors and department leads.

I probably should have choose CE .. but whatever CS imo still needs a solid CE/EE foundation without it, 30 years from now I fear what will become of the industry of electronics... when all current gen folks are retired and nobody to write the embedded code, that literally ALLLLL consumer electronics runs on. Newer generations don’t understand pointers, proper memory management etc.

So I combined both passion AI and knowledge of software in general and embedded software, and been working on my career in the auto industry without a degree, never looked back.

Hi guys,

Im a Software Engineer from Germany. I've just heard that delevopers are much better paid in the US compared to Europe. In Europe/Germany i would get about 40k a year as Somebody who just finished university(bachelor degree). Can somebody confirm that ? You dont have to Post your exact income :P just Let me know if that's True, because i am Thinking about going to Work in the US in a few Years ..maybe some of you have german Friends in the US it Industry ? :)

Thanks for the answers.

Let me recap everything i learned after graduating college with a computer science degree and entering the corporate world

---

1) College is a scam. Literally NOBODY EVER asked me on ANY interviews if i have a degree and if i had graduated university. Nobody cares. They treat me as if im a slave clown who didnt finish any school and thats how they view and treat everyone

2) By having a computer science degree, i do NOT have a privilege of getting hired, I do NOT have a privilege of getting more interviews, i do NOT get a privilege of having a higher salary, i do NOT get ANY benefits or privilege other than wasted time and brainwash.

3) Literally a senior technical software engineer told me on a technical interview "college is not meant to teach you anything useful or valuable, college is there just to teach you how to learn"

The FUCK? I was extremely shellshocked when i heard him tell me that in my face. I was in disbelief and too stunned to speak. if somebody told me that truth before i started college i would have never started college. I can do that on my own for free

4) I have applied to over 100s of interviews and nobody wanted to hire. Everyone wants a Google-Level Senior engineer in 2023 with 50+ years of experience and then pay him 600$ a month.

5) What is happening in this corporate world is absolutely fucking disgusting, sickening and immoral. This is no different than 1800s slavery. This is how modern day slavery looks like. And even when i accept working for 600$ a month i can barely afford to pay to live. I'd get like 50$ leftover every month if im lucky. This is SICKENING

6) "Engineering will make you rich" is a BULLSHIT saying that our parents and friends say. It is FAR from making you rich. You only get "rich" (but slave level rich) once you turn 40-50 years old. Is that success to you?

7) Engineering is so saturated that nobody appreciates this hard work anymore. You're a slave and you have to compete with other slaves by telling your master (employer) that you'll work for slave salary AND you'll work 10x more in exchange to earn 20x less. This is IMMORAL and DISGUSTING

Former classmate: Our alma mater is looking for alumni to participate in career day. Share what skills you need and the steps you took for your career path!

Me: Thanks for the invite. But I’m not a good role model for this.

FC: Why not? You’re a successful engineer!

Me: So I used my full tuition university scholarship on an art degree because I was too depressed after a long physical illness. Oh, and for some reason a lot of y’all assumed I went to a private uni when I went to the public uni. Then I went to graduate school immediately after and during a recession and ended up with tens of thousands in student debt. Then I did a lot of part time jobs before going to a shady coding bootcamp. I’m lucky to have encountered an advocate and a company willing to take me on as a junior dev. I’m pretty sure I was a diversity hire and I was definitely underpaid. I’m lucky to have moved on from there and to be thriving now. I’d tell the students to skip college (like I had considered) and go into a trade. And I’d also tell them a lot of life is luck and not just hard work.

FC: 😧

A little background of me. I’m a firm believer of knowledge is power, skill is practice and hard work. Especially for this field, it’s easier to self learn the skills or language these days without having to take loans or burn a huge hole in ur wallet and stuff. But i personally feel, it’s hard to follow an effective path of learning when the info is everywhere. So have to be careful with that. (that’s why I’m here to learn from experts, lurking around)

Sure, degree is just a paper or validation that this person has completed this and that. But doesn’t reflect their actual skill. Especially for this field where u can just show ur skills by making projects. If ur potential boss is impressed by ur skills, u are hired. BUT if ure in Singapore, they require u to have degree by law. No matter how skilled u are, u only get specific amount of salary within a preset range. The range goes by Diploma, Degree, Master, PhD. Etc. U will still get hired by a company if they like u, but won’t get more than a preset range.

I was contented with just my Diploma. But decided to get degree cuz I wanted to earn more. And now considering to go for ms, just cuz my current company gives sponsorship.

Aside from salary, I do think getting a degree in University is one of the important phases of the life, where ure working hard, trying to juggle different things. Also, u do get other perks being a uni students, like discount for books, get access to latest devices if the uni has.

But all in all, whatever floats ur boat, right.

1. Find a decent, entry level job at a company for full time
2. Graduate from my two year tech school with my degree
3. Apply/start at a university for my Bachelor's degree.
4. Start actually building my database application project. Its been on the back burner for over a year.
5. Try not to be so doubtful or unsure of dev skills. Try being less anxious to ask for advice or explanations, and dont let lack of knowledge discourage or embarrass me from growing my skills.

A /thread.

I have to say something important. As the story progresses, the rage will keep fueling up and get more spicy. You should also feel your blood boil more. If not, that's because you're happy to be a slave.

This is a clusterfuck story. I'll come back and forth to some paragraphs to talk about more details and why everything, INCLUDING OUR DEVELOPER JOBS ARE A SCAM. we're getting USED as SLAVES because it's standardized AS NORMAL. IT IS EVERYTHING *BUT* NORMAL.

START:

As im watching the 2022 world cup i noticed something that has enraged me as a software engineer.

The camera has pointed to the crowd where there were old football players such as Rondinho, Kaka, old (fat) Ronaldo and other assholes i dont give a shit about.

These men are old (old for football) and therefore they dont play sports anymore.

These men don't do SHIT in their lives. They have retired at like 39 years old with MULTI MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN THEIR BANK ACCOUNT.

And thats not all. despite of them not doing anything in life anymore, THEY ARE STILL EARNING MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS PER MONTH. FOR WHAT?????

While i as a backend software engineer get used as a slave to do extreme and hard as SHIT jobs for slave salary.

500-600$ MAX PER MONTH is for junior BACKEND engineers! By the law of my country software businesses are not allowed to pay less than $500 for IT jobs. If thats for backend, imagine how much lower is for frontend? I'll tell you cause i used to be a frontend dev in 2016: $200-400 PER MONTH IS FOR FRONTEND DEVELOPERS.

A BACKEND SOFTWARE ENGINEER with at least 7-9 years of professional experience, is allowed to have $1000-2000 PER MONTH

In my country, if you want to have a salary of MORE THAN $3000/Month as SOFTWARE ENGINEER, you have to have a minimum of Master's Degree and in some cases a required PhD!!!!!!

Are you fucking kidding me?

Also. (Btw i have a BSc comp. sci. Degree from a valuable university) I have taken a SHIT ton of interviews. NOT ONE OF THEM HAVE ASKED ME IF I HAVE A DEGREE. NO ONE. All HRs and lead Devs have asked me about myself, what i want to learn and about my past dev experience, projects i worked on etc so they can approximate my knowledge complexity.

EVEN TOPTAL! Their HR NEVER asked me about my fycking degree because no one gives a SHIT about your fucking degree. Do you know how can you tell if someone has a degree? THEY'LL FUCKING TELL YOU THEY HAVE A DEGREE! LMAO! It was all a Fucking scam designed by the Matrix to enslave you and mentally break you. Besides wasting your Fucking time.

This means that companies put degree requirement in job post just to follow formal procedures, but in reality NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT IT. NOOBOODYYY.

ALSO: I GRADUATED AND I STILL DID NOT RECEIVE MY DEGREE PAPER BECAUSE THEY NEED AT LEAST 6 MONTHS TO MAKE IT. SOME PEOPLE EVEN WAITED 2 YEARS. A FRIEND OF MINE WHO GRADUATED IN FEBRUARY 2022, STILL DIDNT RECEIVE HIS DEGREE TODAY IN DECEMBER 2022. ALL THEY CAN DO IS PRINT YOU A PAPER TO CONFIRM THAT I DO HAVE A DEGREE AS PROOF TO COMPANIES WHO HIRE ME. WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY MAKING FOR SO LONG, DIAMONDS???

are you fucking kidding me? You fucking bitch. The sole paper i can use to wipe my asshole with that they call a DEGREE, at the end I CANT EVEN HAVE IT???

Fuck You.

This system that values how much BULLSHIT you can memorize for short term, is called "EDUCATION", NOT "MEMORIZATION" System.

Think about it. Don't believe be? Are you one of those nerds with A+ grades who loves school and defends this education system? Here I'll fuck you with a single question: if i gave you a task to solve from linear algebra, or math analysis, probabilistics and statistics, physics, or theory, or a task to write ASM code, would you know how to do it? No you won't. Because you "learned" that months or years ago. You don't know shit. CHECK MATE. You can answer those questions by googling. Even the most experienced software engineers still use google. ALL of friends with A+ grades always answered "i dont know" or "i dont remember". HOW IF YOU PASSED IT WITH A+ 6 DAYS AGO? If so, WHY THE FUCK ARE WE WASTING YEARS OF AN ALREADY SHORT HUMAN LIFE TO TEMPORARILY MEMORIZE GARBAGE? WHY DONT WE LEARN THAT PROCESS THROUGH WORKING ON PRACTICAL PROJECTS??? WOULDNT YOU AGREE THATS A BETTER SOLUTION, YOU MOTHERFUCKER BITCH ASS SLAVE SUCKA???

Im can't even afford to buy my First fuckinf Car with this slave salary. Inflation is up so much that 1 bag of BASIC groceries from Walmart costs $100. IF BASIC GROCERIES ARE $100, HOW DO I LIVE WITH $500-600/MONTH IF I HAVE OTHER EXPENSES?

Now, back to slavery. Here's what i learned.

1800s: slaves are directly forced to work in exchange for food to survive.

2000s: slaves are indirectly forced to work in exchange for money as a MIDDLEMAN that can be used to buy food to survive.

????

This means: slavery has not gone anywhere. Slavery has just evolved. And you're fine with it.

Will post part 2 later.

Impostor Syndrome...

I dropped out of university because of Maths (I'm not really that bad at maths, but that thematic wasn't really mine... But whatever) and obviously had no job nor any graduation (except my school thingy) and wasn't able to study something computer science related, because that's how it goes in Germany... (If you can't pass a certain subject, you will get blocked for the studies that involve that subject for 2 years or sth... Because I failed in Maths meant that I'm fucked)

So I started an apprenticeship to atleast do something and get that degree.

In my new company I really felt (and sometime feel it nowadays) like I'm the fifth wheel on the car and don't really achieve anything (but i really do).

That really fuckin sucks and hinders the fun that I could have in my job :/

I honestly don't understand people who genuinely believe formal schooling will cover all the basics they need to know to do a real-life job, and still get barely passing grades on all relevant subjects.

I genuinely don't understand people who copy GitHub projects to pass classes, and graduate from a university with goddamn StackOverflow instead of a brain.

Whom I understand even less are people who don't do anything major-related on their spare time.

I mean, change your fucking major, do what you actually like, do things that actually light your nuts with passion.

Please don't waste my time pretending you are in it not just because it's potentially well-paid and "cool".

Please don't waste my time being my coworker.

Yes, I'm looking at you, trendy wanker with a CS degree and no personal projects.

P.S. Junior here. Yes, I'm full of hatred for all the "real programmers" in the industry out there. I hoped for a better experience.

P.S.S. I mean absolutely no offense to people using either GitHub or StackOverflow outside of the aforementioned context.

I need to rant about life decisions, and choosing a dev career probably too early. Not extremely development related, but it's the life of a developer.

TL;DR: I tried a new thing and that thing is now my thing. The new thing is way more work than my old thing but way more rewarding & exciting. Try new things.

I taught myself to program when I was a kid (11 or 12 years old), and since then I have always been absolutely sure that I wanted to be a games programmer. I took classes in high school and college with that aim, and chose a games programming degree. Everything was so simple, nail the degree, get a job programming something, and take the first games job that I could and go from there.

I have always had random side hobbies that I liked to teach myself, just like programming. And in uni I decided that I wanted to learn another language (natural, not programming) because growing up in England meant that I only learned English and was rarely exposed to anything else. The idea of knowing another fascinated me.

So I dabbled in a few different languages, tried to find a culture that seemed to fit my style and attitude to life and others, and eventually found myself learning Korean. That quickly became something I was doing every single day, and I decided I needed to go to Korea and see what life there could be like.

I found out that my university offered a free summer school program for a couple of weeks, all I had to pay for was the flights. So a few months later I was there and it was literally the best thing I'd done in my life to that point. I'd found two things that made me feel even better than the idea of becoming the games programmer I'd always wanted to be. Travelling and using my other language to communicate with people that I couldn't in English. At that point I was still just a beginner, but even the simple conversations with people who couldn't speak English felt awesome.

So when I returned home, I found that that trip had completely thrown a spanner into my life plan. All I could think about after that was improving my language skills and going back there for as long as possible. Who knows what to do.

I did exactly that. I studied harder than I'd ever studied for anything and left the next year to go and study in Korea, now with intermediate language skills, everyday conversations no longer being a problem at all.

Now I live here, I will be here for the next year and I have to return to England for one year to finish my degree. Then instead of having my simple plan of becoming a developer, I can think of nothing I want to do less than just stay in England doing the same job every day, nothing to do with language. I need to be at least travelling to Korea, and using my language skills in at least some way.

The current WIP plan is to take intensive language classes here (from next week, every single weekday), build awesome dev side projects and contribute to open source stuff. Then try to build a life of freelance translation/interpreting/language teaching and software development (maybe here, maybe Korea).

So the point of this rant is that before, I had a solid plan. Now I am sat in my bed in Korea writing this, thinking about how I have almost no idea how I'm going to build the life that I want. And yet somehow, the uncertainty makes this so much more exciting and fulfilling. There's a lot more worrying, planning and deciding to do. But I think the fact that I completely changed my life goals just through a small decision one day to satisfy a curiosity is a huge life lesson for me. And maybe reading this will help other people decide to just try doing something different for once, and see if your life plan holds up.

If it does, never stop trying new things. If it doesn't (like mine), then you now know that you've found something that you love as much as or even more that your plan before. Something that you might have lived your whole life never finding.

I don't expect many people to read this all, but writing it here has been very cathartic for me, and it's still a rant because now I have so much more work and planning to do. But it's the good kind of work.

Things aren't so simple now, but they're way more worth it.

An intern made a very bad impression on the first day.

This was before I become a developer. I was working in commercial art sales. One day, I had an appointment to onboard two new interns together.

Intern 1 shows up and I ask her for her signed confidentiality agreement. The boss had sent it out a week before and told me the interns were bringing the signed paperwork on their first day. I see the surprised look on her face and she says she forgot. She’s lucky I had access to another copy. If I didn’t, things could have gotten pretty awkward if I had to contact my boss, who was out of office. If there’s no signed agreement, I can’t onboard her and I’d have to send her home. The appointment was made with intern 1’s availability in mind, so intern 1 could have spent her time coming to the office for nothing and being turned away because of a stupid mistake she made.

While we wait for intern 2 to arrive, I try to engage in small talk with intern 1. I try to get to know her a little better and I ask “are you still in college/university?” She word vomits that she thought she had graduated, but six months later she hadn’t received her diploma and she called the school and they told her her pre-college credits had not transferred, so she’s finishing those credits now.

Oh, intern, you should have just simplified all this to “I’m finishing up my degree” or “yes, I’m still in college.” This is TMI. You don’t want to give out information about yourself that could put you in a bad light. You need to know to be discreet about yourself. You’re 22 years old. It’s really bad judgement to say this to your supervisor (me) and we’ve only known each other for ten minutes. I’m not your friend, I’m your supervisor. Honestly, I thought the explanation didn’t make sense because she would have found out about the credits when she tried to transfer them and when she applied for graduation. I didn’t prod for more details.

I did have to tell my boss about intern 1 forgetting the paperwork. It’s not something the intern would be reprimanded for, but it is something that’s not a good sign. The paperwork had been sent by the boss a week prior. It’s troublesome that an intern would forget to complete an important task that was sent by the boss. This was never a problem with prior interns.

Boss did freak out because boss thought I onboarded intern 1 without intern agreeing to the confidentiality agreement. Boss hadn’t considered an intern would forget the paperwork and didn’t tell me what to do if this did happen. I reassured boss that I had printed a new copy and had intern 1 sign the agreement.

I didn’t say anything about the word vomit. The content was troubling, but I was concerned this would be gossip and I wasn’t out to sabotage the intern.

Forgetting the paperwork and the word vomit were signs the intern wasn’t reliable. Intern had trouble taking direction even when it was written down. She’d do stupid things like invite her boyfriend to the office for hours and let BF sit at the boss’s desk—boss caught her and boss’s office is visible from our public viewing floor, so visitor did see this too. I suspected she might have an diagnosed learning disability.

In the end, intern didn’t ask for a reference letter. Boss said that if intern asked for one in the future, the answer would be no.

Intern 1 is the reason why I don’t want to be in change of interns ever again even though I’m not in art sales anymore.

Decided to bite the bullet and start working towards a degree with the open university. £17k fml

How are Coding Bootcamps and what are they like?

A little background:

I’ve been going to a University (have a year left for a CS degree) and I am so EXTREMELY frustrated. I thought I would get an education but it’s so underwhelming. 95% of it doesn’t involve programming and the classes that do are so elementary that I know more than the professors. By the end of my web design course we had been taught to center text, insert images, insert links, and how to use tables with a single day on CSS using colors.
The OOP courses are all the same, learn variables, types, conditionals, loops, classes, functions, and so forth. Python, C++, and Java. I taught all this to myself when I was 15, I’m 29 now.

I’ve recently gotten extremely interested into full stack web development. .NET Core, React, Typescript. I’m also working with Electron. I’m basically 100% self taught and spend almost every waking moment trying to learn more and apply it.

There’s only one person at my school who has the same passion as me and he’s the president at the coding club but is going into machine learning and big data (I’m the Secretary) and I just wish I could interact with more people who have the same passion. I would love to be challenged. I feel as if I spend more time trying to learn and diagnose problems then applying my knowledge because web development is so complicated when it comes to connecting everything together and I’m still relatively new to it (started like 4 months ago). I’m an extremely fast learner and extremely dedicated so I’m not worried about that being an issue.

I just really want to be a part of a community where I have people who can answer my questions and I don’t have to spend hours or days on google finding a solution to integrating Webpack or using typescript with react, and more. I want to feel challenged.

Can I get this from a boot camp? I recently listened to a podcast from Syntax and it really excited me but I don’t want to be let down again. Either way I’m finishing my degree to get that bullshit $60000 piece of paper but I wouldn’t mind taking a couple months off for something like this if it’s worth it.

I live in CO so if you have any Bootcamps in CO that you recommend, I’d love to hear it and take a trip to check it out in person.

Thanks a bunch!

1 - I love coding because since when I was a kid I really loved to solve problems and create things

2 - I always tried to understand how computers worked, and how could yo make a program because when I was a kid I was almost always on the computer and my dream was to create a virus 😂

3 - I was studying my baccalaureate and I hadn't decided what to study in the university. I was only playing videogames and installing software to make jokes. So, my computing teacher taught me to code in VB.net and how to manage a local network so I decided to study and IT degree before going to the university, and when I was studying that I falled in love with programming so I'm currently in the university studying software development engineer

Hell yea, gotta finish my prep project for my bachelor's thesis so I've been coding every day since the beginning of the holidays.

To be perfectly honest with you I love it! It's like a 9-5 job, no classes at uni, just work and coffee breaks and I even got to go back to my parent's house for two weeks which is wonderful.

I wish that uni could always be like that though, gotta make the most of those two weeks

Hate my fucking ‘Logic’ class. Teaching us if, or, and, etc statements and when something is true or false so far. Fair enough, part of logic. But fucking 6 classes on the same topic, isn’t helpful. Especially since it feels like the same shit I learnt myself when I was 13 and a junior in High School.

People are all surprised at it, even the Computer Science majors. This shouldn’t be a shock to you on how these statements work if you’ve coded for a few minutes in the University. You should’ve learnt it in your first programming class.

Ugh, just how I feel about this class. Have to take it to get my degree, otherwise I would’ve dropped it by now >.> Waste of time and money for me.

I'm very angry at C# 😡 (and java in some degree). Recently I decided to create huge project in C#. (It is my favorite launguage now because of great VS2017 its features, lib and such). I used windows form app in order to make pretty gui for this program. Everything worked fine, but i decided to implement some 3d rendering system in order to display grafs in 3d, oh how foolish was I.

Ok so what are my options?
1.DirectX9 -> abandoned by microsoft, they say its ded so nope.
2. DX11 -> great! i even can use sharpdx or simpledx to use it! oh wait, what is that? INVALID DX CALL
(in demo code)Damit!
3.OpenGL -> obsolete, lib non existent.
4. Library that comes with .NET -> WFP only sorry!
(i found some dogdy tutorials on yt for dx11 but they need .net 2.0 really?) 😐

In that moment i decided to swich to java. (because Java c#_launguage = new Java("microsoft");)
After 1 day of instaling eclipse and 2 more to install the newest jdk MANUALY i realized that java isn't that easy to use as C#, because:
- no dynamic type-> HUGE PAIN i cant use a single list to store everything buuuu!
-console? yes but its burried inside some random lib and its not consistent with every java version!
-gui editor similar to VS one? oh you need to create it from scrach!😫

Well at lest i can render things. So maybe java will render suff as another tool in my app? Nope pipes NON existent, we need to use sockiets! (unity pipe plugin was easier! worked but it was SLOW)

Ok so after few more days of struggling i managed to render simple graf using directx9 in my original C# project that works fine.. 😥 I only need to create a lib to wrap in and we are done!

Why can't companies create a laungage that will have ALL the features i need? Or at lest give me something like pipes that work in every laungage that will be helpful!

I know it is sometimes stressful to be a dev. But when your program works 😀 that is great feeling! Especialy when you learned to code yourself like me 😁. (student before a university, that lives in small abadoned town)

I hate the fact that our university is hiring ex-developers from the year 1990-2000 to teach us. They are knowledgeable about many stuff like datastructures and algorithms, but when they force a project on us where we have to use some new tech, the students become the teachers. Heck, one of the requirements of the project was to set up a continuous integration server and we had to explain to them that we needed a server and how git was part of it. (classmate even had to explain how git worked to them).

I know that adapting and learning stuff yourself is part of the education, but why are we the ones who should explain the stuff we MUST know to get our degree to the teachers who are supposed to actually, in my opinon, be experts and knowledgable in what we have to know and learn..

Sooooo... I've felt a bit lost during my years as a student and maybe this is a nice place to finally talk about it.
I've had my first programming experiences in school (back then it was delphi, a Pascal variant), then decided after graduating I want to study computer science. I've stuck with it and will finish my masters degree in a few months. (Took me a year longer than the university plans but will likely have a very good grade)

Since i have little programming experience and never coded anything useful (mostly study projects or simple programming tasks) I've always been struggling with depressions, worries of being not good enough and never finding a job etc pp, but in the last few months it got worse since I NEED to apply for jobs now as i graduate next may. I'd really like to improve and found some "learn how to code" websites but the progress seems still slow and meaningless when I compare myself to all those guys out there:
- those comparing several hardware/software pieces casually since they know all the (dis)advantages and specs off by heart
- those who have fierce discussions about languages, libraries, runtimes etc
- those who solve the problems in coding websites with 3 lines and incredibly mathematicsl proofs for why this shortcut works (fastest)
- basically the guys who discuss so many things i've never even heard of

I just feel so lost, useless and like i missed years of learning things everybody else just obviously knows now. Is there any way to catch up? I thought about trying to join a local Chaos Computer Club but they sound like they wouldn't be fond of a noob like me.

To the one who did a degree:
How mush do you use the algorithms you've learnt in the college/University?

Been asked to give a lecture to the freshmen at ye olde alma mater.
They are gonna pay for the air ticket, the shuttle to and from campus and a couple nights at a fairly ok hotel.
Feeling like a fucking rockstar.
...
Gave the lecture. Only half those kids spent the whole time on their phones. My old drinking buddy and now a professor at the school said it was more direct attention than one could expect at a music concert.
...
Feeling kinda scared about how young women dress nowadays, but I do am an old indian dude, so what do I know?
Also, since when is lifting weights and running a half-marathon a requirement for a degree in computer sciences? Turing might have been an Olympian, but I'm pretty sure that since the invention of the integrated circuit my people have spent more time in labs than in gyms. That is not true for those kids.
Maybe it's a freshmen thing, and they will age out of that healthy living nonsense. Maybe the real world will crush it under bills and tuition loan repayments.
...
Tried to ask the university for a refund of the hotel and taxi bills that I've paid out of pocket. Two hours in four different queues and two opposite-sode-of-campus buildings. Suddenly remembered the true meaning of the word "Kafkaesque".
...
Remembering the old uni days with some still-in-grad-school / faculty old friends and getting drunk in the old watering holes? Priceless.

Recruiter from last week told me she will contact me next week with further HR interviews

No contact for the whole week until right now

---

RECRUITER: Hello, colleagues from ShitStain company have provided feedback, and unfortunately, they won't be proceeding with the further process. They mentioned they need someone with more experience and asked me to thank you for your patience and interest. Personally, I've had only positive experiences from our conversation, so if a similar position opens up with another client in the future, I'll be free to reach out to you. I hope we have the opportunity to collaborate again.

ME: Thank you for the response. If me having 5+ years of experience is not enough for them, what exactly are they looking for? I'd like to know more about what they think I'm missing, and if it's indeed a gap, I'll work on improving that aspect.

RECRUITER: Your experience is certainly valuable to offer employers. However, for this position, they specifically need experience in Java, and they're looking for someone who has been focused on that technology for 5+ years. I believe new opportunities will arise soon that I can offer you if you're still interested in making a change. 😊

---

Is she FUCKING STUPID?

I JUST SAID i have 5+ years of experience and she rejects me because they need someone with 5+ years of experience????? (we're both talking about the same thing -- java)

Even if someone has 5+ years of experience THAT IS NOT ENOUGH? WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT FROM ME 96+ YEARS OF EXPERIENCE?

Are you Fucking mental?

Am i being fucking gaslighted right now?

Can you fucking believe what kind of retards contact me?

NO ONE even gives a SHIT about the fact that i have a computer science degree from a VERY hard university?

My 5+ years of experience and 25+ years of school is worth between $0 and $500 ?????

I am disgusted

I am absolutely tired and exhausted from interviews

Hey guys, I need some junior advice. I work at a small startup in a team with 2 other backend developers.

The "new" guy studied at a university for a few years. He writes beautiful code. I try to learn from it and use his short hands a lot. I came from highschool and don't have a degree in it (yet).

I recently wrote a piece of code which handles some timeslot logic. I was really proud of it.

New guy needs to fix a bug and add a few things. He completely refactors my code and makes it more structured and partly better. The logic stayed the same.

It sort of bothers me that he touches my (precious) code. How do you guys handle these things?

Got the GitHub student developer pack in 10th grade (highschool)

I recently made an application for GitHub student developer pack which got accepted .
If you don't know what this pack is all about , let me tell you this pack gives you free access to various tools that world-class developers use. The pack currently contains 23 tools ranging from Data Science, Gaming, Virtual Reality, Augmented Reality, APIs, Integrated Development Environments, Version Control Systems, Cloud Hosting Platforms, Code tutorials, Bootcamps, integration platforms, payment platforms and lots more.

I thought my application wouldn't qualify because after reading the documentation , I thought that It was oriented more towards college and university students but nonetheless I applied and my application got accepted . Turns out all you need is a school -issued verifiable email address or proof of you current academic status (marksheets etc.)

After few minutes of the application I got the "pro" tag on my GitHub profile although I didn't receive any emails .

I tested it out and claimed the Canva Pro subscription for free after signing up with my GitHub account.

I definitely recommend , if you are currently enrolled in a degree or diploma granting course of study such as a high school, secondary school, college, university, homeschool, or similar educational institution
and have a verifiable school-issued email address or documents that prove your current student status, have a GitHub user account
and are at least 13 years old , PLEASE APPLY FOR THE PROGRAM .

Checkout the GitHub docs for more info..

Thanks !

My GitHub GitHub Username :
satvikDesktop

PS. I would have posted links to some sites and documentations for further reading but I can't post url's in a rant yet :(

So I was glad that I finally completed the project for my bachelor's degree after fixing random bugs.
Here came this shocking news which left me stunned.

Some other batch bought a similar project from a project centre(lifeline for noobs to pass university project by buying projects made by someone else).

Head of the Department sent me a message that the project done by my team(95%me) is rejected as the other batch also has a similar project. He's aware that they bought it from a project centre. He's defending them that their money would go in vain as they bought it already.

I was like WTF!! Srsly? Do you even know what it takes to make a project functional? I've no idea what I'm going to do now.
#doublestandards

What are the chances of landing any kind of job in the software field without my CS bachelor's degree completed?

Cuz I'm so tired of the impractical bullshit I've had to do in class for the last 2 or 3 years. I just don't get why the University does not prepare people to work in dev teams yet it seems to be a prerequisite for any consideration to be hired in the field.

Edit: I'm quite familiar with programming and learn quickly. But is that not sufficient?

Okay, this is quite hard to explain properly, but I'm actually scared of my personal future.

In about a year, I finish school and I don't have a straight plan of what to do next. I want to work independently, preferably as a game dev, but I imagine that to be a hard task. I have thought of doing a bachelor's degree in game development, but the university I prefer to go to costs 20k€, which is a huge sum and I don't even know whether it would be actually worth it. The university states that 20% of all their graduated students work independently afterwards and they even offer you a flexible "loan" (not sure if it's the right term) you can pay off while you start working, but I fear I won't be able to pay it back, I cannot imagine making this much money any time soon after I start working independently as game dev. Additionally I fear I won't be able to keep my motivation up, since I struggle doing so already, on the other hand my lack of motivation could be caused by this toxic environment I live in.

I've also considered doing freelancing, but when I'm scrolling through the requests made, I never find something I am experienced in, I don't know what request is best to get started with freelancing.

I just don't know what to do in the future and I'm scared and considering to go to this university is probably pretty stupid already and I consider it as me ranting myself, because of my nonexisting self-esteem. So I don't know what to expect from this post, I just needed to share.

Not taking university seriously.
Cost me a lot of lost wage power even if the degree taught me very little new.

Everyday I heard people tell me that a college degree is worthless and the student debt will destroy my life. Im a sophomore at university ($75000 a year) majoring in computer science. What are your guys experiences? What the pros/cons of being self taught / getting a degree? I just want to set my life up and be able to provide for my family

Reading all your rants I'm glad my parents always supported me. They even helped to pick a good university and paid my dormroom all 6 semesters. I'm the first in the whole family who got a degree at university and I think they are very proud I have a stable job and a good income.
Though I doubt they know how rare (good) programmers are here and how much job offers I'm getting each week 😄

Don't remember the reaction. I was too young and it was too long ago, but my path was pretty set in stone since basic school. I started coding in second grade. My father is developer himself. So I got to code with my dad even before joining highschool - learning C was more usefull than Basic at school. And I got some simple tasks from him that he used in his projects :-) But during high school got few gigs of my own doing some sys admin stuff and some development. Got first serious job during university and my parents were just worried whether I'll finish university. Well dropped out before getting my masters but got at least bachelor degree. I think I turned out just fine :-)

Hi all devRanters (if that is a thing),

I'm currently in grade 10, and I'm looking forward to a career in computer programming. I find that sometimes Maths is very intimidating, as such, I want to ask all of the devs here: is Maths really that crucial to the job? Or is it merely a requirement to go to university and get a CS degree?

Thanks in advance!

How do you find motivation to learn new things? I am not saying regarding new technologies or frameworks.
Other stuffs.

I am 26 and I am starting to continue University but I need to learn for TOEFL and SAT. (Long story short, I dropped out because I had to move to USA, and it was choosing USA or University.)

I am working as Software Developer here in USA, but I am preparing to study in University. IT is kinda difficult to find a job here without a degree and I got lucky that I have one.

I start learning for TOEFL, easy stuffs. Just learning how to prepare for it. After 30 minutes or less I zone out. Start thinking about other stuffs that are not related to anything. Daydreaming.....

I am thinking I might have ADHD, but still it is just a though and I do not want to go to doctor and get diagnosed.
Or I am just lazy and kinda depressed that I do not have motivation for anything.

So, I am asking you dear devranters, how do you find motivation for university?

Realizing my currently degree plan will not transfer to a 4 year university where I can get my bachelors, I have decided to stop taking all tech classes and focus on the classes that will transfer such as English, Calc, History and Government.

Reading all your rants really gets me thinking if it'd be better to stop studying and start working :/

Every university in the world should have an A4 paper on the front of the main entrance door with big bolded text that says

"DISCLAIMER: HAVING A DEGREE IS NEVER GOING TO GUARANTEE YOU A JOB"

Not university. I hate the whole stigma behind university and that the only way to have a successful career is by getting a degree. I started learning myself by just googling stuff when i was 11 and was more interested in it when i grew older and was about 15 when i started watching a lot of YouTube tutorials, reading online articles and made a GitHub account. The best way to learn is by having passion for it, knowledge will come itself as long as you're determined to achieve.

A previous rant made me start doubting my choices.

I just graduated from college (but college here is probably not what you call college. You choose whether you do one more year and gain the 'x technician' certificate or you do two years and get the 'practical engineer' degree)

Hope you understand it.

Anyway, so I continued 1 year (I skipped 1 year so it's like I did the whole two years) and I have a practical engineer degree in electronics.

I love programming and really want to work in the field but (since I know nothing about the market) I don't even know if I'll get a job without going to university and getting a degree (which I want to get, I want to learn Software Engineering though, not CS)

So now to my question, do you guys truly think getting a degree will be a waste of my time?

tl;dr I want to get a Software Engineer degree, but a lot of posts say it's a waste of time. Who agrees and who doesn't?

Although I didnt get my degree yet i can say that i already knew that university wont teach me shit. Im already at second semester and im currently planning on skipping (passing early) half of the courses.

Most of the knowlege i will gain surely will come from personal projects and research. Some people forget that uni just gives you the oppurtunity and the tools and that is your resposibility to use them and learn by yourself as well.

In my university days, when I used to spend time elsewhere than curriculum classes : "You're not getting anywhere if you don't get a degree in whatever you want to work with in your life."

Today I earn more than all the cousins of my age combined. No more rants from anyone, anymore.
I might not have a professional degree, but my family still sees me as a responsible person.

Ok please guys I need a little help here.
So I'm in my second year of my Computer science course and all subjects except one went well.So I failed my first year maths module so I decided to redo it and study much harder.Low and behold I worked really hard towards passing the exam but it was still extremely difficult.So I haven't gotten my mark and all but if I do fail it again I will not be able to continue in this University.I do not have a plan B at all and I really don't know what to do.I live in South Africa(if that's relevant).So basically if I pass I'll continue with the course but the question is what do I do if I don't pass.should I start working or try another degree at another University which will be another 4 years.PS I'm heading for 20 years old in a few weeks time.I appreciate anyone who gives any feedback.

The final company who was the most interested in hiring me, has finally replied to my email today, being late 7 days.

Cant show the screenshot here because its not in english.

"We want to thank you for participating in this process. This time we have decided to choose another candidate..."

AND GET THIS NOW:

"...the only reason was the number of years of experience."

????

- it's not enough that i have graduated such an extremely hard university
- it's not enough that i have this apparently worthless computer science degree
- it's not enough that i have knowledge
- it's not enough that i have a fuck load of projects done and showcased
- it's not enough that i worked with international clients
- it's not enough that i have the knowledge and skills they're looking for
- it's not enough that i had answered everything correctly on a technical interview

now the new standard is to have minimum 3+ years of working experience on top of all of that.

What are peoples thoughts on taking a sort of backwards step in their career in order to get more experience?

I took my current job as I thought it would be a stepping stone to go on and do more development work (it was my first dev role), but I’ve been here 4.5 years and I rarely do anything other than maybe fix a bug every now and then.

They mainly have me doing non-dev support type stuff, and they don’t use any best practices or anything like that, and I feel that I am falling behind where I should be experience wise.

I am doing a degree (distance learning with the Open University) so I am working on personal development but that’s not much help when I go to interviews.

Should I think about trying to go for junior jobs, rather than just developer jobs, and the pay cuts that may go with that, or should I just grind out leet code etc and keep booking interviews?

I just went to a new barber for a haircut. Costed me $8. The barber earned $8 in 20 minutes and immediately went to cut another guy. This means the barber earns $24 per hour.

I, a software engineer with a computer science university degree working in IT tech field as a java backend software engineer on complex government software that sells gas & energy, get paid, and I will be exact to the cent: $3.75 per hour.

This means a barber earns 6.4 TIMES MORE per hour than I do as a software engineer with a computer science degree.

This also means that, it takes me 1 WHOLE DAY to earn as a software engineer with computer science degree, what the barber earns in 1 hour.

Therefore, this further means, after all of life expenses food bills rent taxes etc, that i can barely afford to go to barber. A barber for $8, is not very cheap for me as a software engineer with computer science degree.

I can not explain the utmost disrespect towards me and disappointment to be working as a software engineer with computer science degree.

I, as a software engineer with computer science degree, feel like I am used as an african wage slave to work extremely hard jobs for a below average wage. I am saddened and disgusted. This is shameful and must be illegal.

After all of what I've been through and everything I've seen, it turns out school was everything BUT the path to success. School was a path to failure... A path to eternal wage slave and poverty...

Hi All,

I am currently doing a degree through the Open University. it's a BSc (Hons) in Computing and IT (Software) which is the closest they offer to a full on software engineering degree.

Anyway, I'm not having any second thoughts about it or anything like that, but I was wondering if a degree is going to make that much difference when it comes to applying for jobs when I'm already employed as a developer.

Let me rant! I don’t usually do this but this is just frustrating and draining. Please tell me if im wrong. We have authentication that needs to be refactored. I was assigned on this issue. Im a junior btw. I also attached an image of my proposals. The issue of the old way of our signup process is that when validation fails they will keep on accepting the TaC (terms and conditions) and on our create method we have the validation and creating the user. Basically if User.create(user_params) create else throw invalid end. (Imma take a photo later and show it you)which needs to be refactored. So I created a proposal 1. On my first proposal I could create a middleware to check if the body is correct or valid if its valid show the TaCs and if they accept thats the moment the user is created. There is also additional delete user because DoE told me that we dont need middlewares we have before and after hooks! (I wanted to puke here clearly he doesn’t understand the request and response cycle and separation of concerns) anyway, so if middleware is not accepted then i have to delete the user if they dont accept the TaCs. Proposal 2. If they dont want me to touch the create method i could just show the TaCs and if they dont accept then redirect if they do then show form and do the sign process.

This whats weird (weird because he has a lot of experience and has master or phd) he proposes to create a method called validate (this method is in the same controller as the create, i think hes thinking about hooks) call it first and if it fails then response with error and dont save user, heres the a weird part again he wants me to manually check on each entity. Like User.find_by_email(bs@g.com) something like that and on my mind wtf. Isnt it the same as User.create(user_params) because this will return false if paras are invalid?? (I might be wrong here)

This is not the first time though He proposes solutions that are complex, inefficient, unmaintainable. And i think he doesnt understand ruby on rails or webdev in particular. This the first time i complained or I never complained because im thinking im just a junior and he hs more experience and has a higher degree. This is mot the case here though. I guess not all person who has a higher degree are right. To all self thought and bachelors im telling you not all people who went to prestige university and has a higher degree are correct and right all the time. Anyway ill continue later and do what he says. Let me know if im wrong please. Thanks

I'm currently taking a computer science degree (which sounds too fancy) at a school that has a really close relationship with a software company called "Unik". Now that makes a lot of sense given how it's a vocational university and all. Now one of the things they teach us for making GUIs is called Windows Forms, and it's really really shit. So shit that me and one of my mates has started to use something called WPF instead (which is like HTML in a lot of ways. And so much better.) How much better? Well we had a bigger project recently with 3 other people who had never programmed before, and their reaction? "It makes so much more sense."

Now what I find really fascinating is that whenever I stumble upon any job posting from Unik, they always seek developers who knows WPF.

I'm pretty happy that I've programmed since 2012 since this place seems really odd at times 😂

I was always into computers, ever since I was a kid. Played a lot of videogames on Windows 98 and XP, and a lot of my earliest drawings were level ideas for those games. My first encounters with code were with game creation software like GameMaker, but I barely touched the code proper outside of editing a few variables from other people's code. After that I basically forgot all about it and spent most of my teen years being a shutin.

Skip ahead to my last year of high school without much idea on what to do. I was good at math when I wasn't being a lazy shit, so between that and what my parents expected of me, I was prepared to go to university for civil engineering. However, two things changed that decision, the first being a great IT professor, when me and a friend were so far ahead, he started assigning us some harder work, and suggested we study computer science at university. The second was a super jank and obscure open-source early 2000's game that somehow still has a thriving community and is actively being developed. I stumbled upon it by chance, and after playing for a while, I submitted a balance change on the GitHub repo. Even though it was just a single variable change, that time I got it. That time I saw how powerful programming could be and what could be done with it. I submitted PR after PR of new features, changes and bugfixes, by the time I left there I had a somewhat solid grasp of the fundamentals of programming, and decided to enrol in the computer science degree.

Enrolling was possibly the best decision I ever made (not america; debt isn't an issue), as well as giving me actual social skills, every course I took just clicked. The knowledge I already somewhat intuitively had a vague grasp on from videogames, general computer use and collaborating with russian coders who produced the jankiest shit that was still somehow functional was expanded upon and consolidated with a high-quality formal education. Four years later and I'm fresh out of uni, it was a long road between when the seed was first planted in my mind and now, but I've finally found out what I want to do with my life.

won't know for sure until i find a job though ffs

it's been a month of job hunting with no real progress except getting first time calls from the smaller local companies, I decided to take a look at my resume and I figured out that I might be applying the wrong way,

I am applying for a web developer job but I only have work experience in IT support, the closest I have to web development is freelancing( I was really that desperate, lol)

with no university degree and parents that constantly remind me that I am no longer in school like my "mates". I'm trying so hard to be able to fucking prove myself.

I got called by three companies while I was away on unpaid labor with my dad, refused to release me. I thought they would always keep coming that way, I was totally wrong, I'm fucking stupid

I should have put my foot down and stood by my own decision but I was a chicken

this sucks, this "job search" territory and the disappointments that come with it is new to me, I just want to be anything at this point, anything that pays

How do I help a software engineer student be better at developing software?

Background: I have this friend that started university with my young brother, two-or-so years ago my brother finished the career and got his degree while she is still there trying to finish the same career (!), we were looking the chance of changing careers but due to her low grades this is not possible and according to her U's counselor is better that she just finishes the career and gets her degree.

We scheduled a Zoom meeting for Sunday next week, to talk about her pain-points and see what improvement we can chase; issue is that I've never mentored anyone ever in my professional life (my brother from time to time drops a question to me or so, but that's different).

My plan is to either see if she suffers from lack of practice (meaning: she does not write software more often in order to improve her skills) or if it's hard for her to think in abstracts, either way, I believe that the latter improves if you do the former (just correct me if I'm wrong), thus the plan would be to assign her a bunch of programming exercises and have meetings at least once a week during her vacations.

My plan would be for her to actually learn game development with Godot, since the final result is always a game my hope is that having something to show encourages her to do the thing, but, who knows.

Have you ever done something like this for someone with the same issues? What was your experience and what nuggets of knowledge can you lend me?

P.S.: We don't live in the States but in Costa Rica, she does not have to deal with crippling student loans.

I haven't observed college to be all that effective at teaching CS. CS education is mostly acquired at the University of Google.com/search?q=%s

Question: exactly got how necessary is a degree anymore for programming positions?

Currently studying.
I feel like degrees are quite valuable. It is basically the university vouching for you and that they think you are qualified within an area. This is quite valuable.
Through work, I have seen some horrible shit in production, therefore i think it makes good sense for a company to ask for some "minimum requirements" which can be verified by an institution like a university. Not saying that all who graduates are good programmers, they just have the minimum required knowledge and skill that the university demands in order to vouch for them.

I believe that on average the "average bad programmer" from a university will be better than "average bad programmer" without degree.

Plus, if you have a decent education system in your country, you shouldn't have to pay for you degree.

rant === true

I despise university. Since I went there, I have stopped learning exciting and new technologies. Instead, I do mips, lisp and Java.

I mean I wouldn't mind java, but it's boring repetitive crap. Making stupid simulations - all the fucking time.

I can not be bothered to learn this shit anymore. It's not worth 9k a year.

I'm lost. I don't know what to do. I can not physically do this anymore.

Edit:

Also, I hate this industry. All they want is a cs degree u til you have 2 years experience and then fuck it. It's a 50 k passport... wtf.

Ive been looking at starting a degree through the Open University for a while, but the prices of the courses are pretty steep (cheaper than a conventional uni) when I've got a kid on the way in a couple of months, and not wanting to take out loans etc.

The other half mentioned that some of her colleagues had paid for their uni courses with help from the Army (she is a paramedic).

I looked into it, and despite leaving the Army in 2014 I am still entitled to two claims 80% of a course upto £2000

That coupled with an unexpected bonus means I should be able to partially fund the first 2 years of the course.

I need to phone the OU to discuss how to apply etc, but I'm feeling pretty good.

Not sure if this is the right place but Just givin' it a try :)
I always was pretty lazy in school and i will never forget that my teacher tols me that i will never reach anything with my attitude. BTW being lazy in school does Not mean being lazy at all. The whole time my classmates did their homework, i was sitting at my computer programming and developing new stuff.

Now 1,5 years later i succeeded at my A grade (Not good but i got it), have a nice, well-payed and fun job as a developer and received a scholarship worth 16k € on a private university for all my previous knowledge and efforts for the company.

Really want to go back to my teacher and tell him about all that stuff.

Thankful to be a developer 🙌

TL;DR: was bad at school, got blamed by a teacher several times for being lazy, still got the degree, now working as a developer (it's fun and well-payed) and received a scholarship worth 16k€ on a private university

So I am in a dilemma right now... I have like two lifes right now: One the one side I am a student in applied computer science and on the other side I am already working in a Dev company and as a freelancer. Compared to my work, university is boring as hell. I would love to just skip university and start my own company with my other freelancer friend! We already have some clients so we would have a good start. But many people, like my parents for example, told me that need at least degree to achieve something in life. I told them that I would try do earn some certificates (like Cisco) but they are still not happy with this idea. So I would love to hear your opinion guys... Do you think that a degree is absolutely necessary? Thanks in advance!

A degree from an accredited university and thousands of dollars spent on continuing education so some nitwit can ask me if I know a bunch of obscure syntactical features of programming language during a phone interview.

I have working for software engineering for the past 8 years without any degree at all. However, in my latest job interviews one of the things I mainly lacked was understanding and applying the algorithmic concepts. As I hadn't maths since I left college, what would you recommend me?

I was looking for some kind of a course (it is always better when you have someone with whom you can discuss with), but such a specific one doesn't seem to exist in Portugal, and taking an entire degree because of algorithms is not an option to me.

Ideas?

PS: I am currently working, however I do understand that a new algorithmic thinking would help me in my daily job.

Never went to Uni.
I am currently a College student (UK).
I've also got a part time job as a Web Developer.
I've got this job because I was able to prove myself.
Nothing I've learned at the College is useful for my job.
I've seen a lot of fresh graduates getting jobs at my company. They think they know their shit - that is until they get smashed by reality.
From what I've seen the CS degree is not worth a penny. I might still go to Uni but I'd rather choose a different subject.

Have a BS in Web Design & Development from a university...but am wondering if I should go attend a community college and get a degree in programming too.

I feel like YouTube and Lynda would serve me just as well also...

I'd like to build my own, I've helped many friends complete them, not because the teaching was bad, but because I helped them apply for the bootcamp.

I enjoy teaching what I know and I didn't really learn how to program until my final few months of university anyway, so if these had existed prior to me going to university... I might have gone to one of those instead and saved me some money. Admittedly no degree, but I've never been asked to produce my degree and many people who graduated couldn't program anyway...

When I was 7, I got my hands on an Amstrad CPC-464. This was my first exposure to code, copying examples out of the handbook. Shortly after that my school got their first IT suite, with thirty machines running Windows 98. I remember lunchtimes spent playing ZipZaps, a game that shamelessly capitalised on the first Fast and Furious films. I learned how to create macros in Office, and after getting a machine at home with Windows 3.1 I also learned some basic DOS. When I was 12 we got our first XP machine, which I spent hours on with MSN messenger and mucking around with scripts. That machine eventually succumbed to my brother repeatedly powering it on/off, something I still kind of hold against my mother to this day.

After going into care, I bought an old XP laptop from a friend, a machine that I used extensively. I mined my first bitcoin on that machine, bitcoin that could have made me a rich man today if I had only taken backups seriously.

My next machine came with Vista, which was upgraded to 7 shortly afterwards. This is when I got a bit more seriously into code, contributing to a game written in C++ (Armagetron Advanced, if you're interested). I also learned a great deal about automation using this machine, and when I got my second desktop machine at 18 (which at the time was still extremely out of date), I built my first working web server with IIS. I've been through four desktops since then, one of which just about survived a house fire.

Now I run a company of my own, doing development work at a lower cost for social enterprises, and developing a SaaS platform that will eventually make me a living all on its own. This year I hope to finally stop having to worry about debt, income, where I'm getting my next meal from and when I can finally be self sufficient, almost seven years since the care system spit me out after conveniently forgetting to tell me I could have stayed there until after Uni.

I am proud, though, of coming so far with no college or university degree. I'm by no means an expert, but I'd call myself proficient enough in a couple of languages to be capable of making a career of it.

Finance student currently doing a diploma...hoping to do I.T degree in university because felt it maybe useful in finance industry in the future.

Opinions anyone?

Hey all.
I have a non-technical question.
I'm a university drop out for financial reasons where i live and i have been working in the field for 8 years as a backend dev and some dev-ops on the side.
My question is what are my chances of finding a good job in europe (italy germany uk france ... Etc) without a degree?
And what is the range of my annual salary on average?

And thank you for your help.

I used to blast throught everything accademic in a really short time span. I used to push hard on the gas pedal since my college years, up to my bacheler degree. I was always on schedule with every exam, even graduated top of my class and first amongst my colleagues. But then, I felt the urge to change university, I moved out of my parent's home, in a far away city, and everything simply collapsed. All of the sudden, not only was I struggling with my exams, but, most importantly, I started struggling with telling the truth about it. I constantly felt in debt of my parent's efforts to put me through university, to have given me a chance. This caused a strange feeling in me, it was similar to a weird form of depression, I was unable to...act. To do stuff. To even wanting to do it. I started procrastinating everything. I lived at my parent's expenses in this far away town but all I could do was playing videogames. I somehow managed to get to the point that I only had three exams left plus my thesis, but I did this by avoiding all the real hard exams, somehow cheating myself. I was already two years behind schedule at this point, and willing to quit. I was desperate, I cried a lot, thought about running away fron everything as I fear the disappointment I would have caused by simply telling the whole story.

Thankfully I met my girlfriend who helped me realize all I needed to do was move back to my former university and take it step by step from there onwards. I almost didn't make it...again. But I was able to pull throught, I worked during the day, wrote my master thesis early in the morning and late in the evenings. I gave it all. And I made it.

I graduated last year and got a job in the industry. I don't feel as useless anymore. I still fear and dread what the burnout made me feel. How it almost destroyed all confidence I had in myself.

Tldr; I burned out right after getting my bachelor degree. And I stayed like that for years, up to the point that I ended up being years behind schedule. I was able to recover thanks to my gf but still fear and dread those feelings I had when I burned out.

!rant
hey people, I'm trying to get the difference between computer science and computer engineering at an university, trying to decide which course should I take, but I don't get the practical difference between the two, thanks in advance for helping :)

One year ago I graduated from university college,
Thought I had a stack overflowing with knowledge.
How wrong can one man be?
Very wrong, apparently...
Even though I only had a bachelor degree,
I landed a job at a nearby company.

Today I'm maintaining the code I wrote back then,
Seriously wondering if I could just write it all again.
The code I wrote I would consider a crime,
But it's good to see improvement over such a short time.
I still dread coming back to this code in another year,
Thinking yet again; "What the hell went wrong here?".

How useful is my degree? I'm not sure to be honest. I did get to dive into a lot of subject matter which I find interesting and challenging. I also had to learn stuff I hate (solving matrices of differential equations). Strangely though, even though I doubt I will ever use this I am proud of myself for having slugged though it.

The teachers were helpful and supportive, I got to study in groups and had access to resources such as the university's GPU cluster.

In my day2day? So far, I cannot see anything I use directly. However, the university forced me to learn to pick up different technologies quickly, read the documentation, ask for help when your don't understand something. So, in that regard I think I profited from university.

I wasn't the best student by a long shot. My class mates helped me a lot. I struggled A LOT. Having been in the recieving end of a helping hand, o return the favour where ever I can.

Hardware classes for software dev student?

Hey guys. Currently getting into second year of a 5 year curriculum to get an 'Integrated Master of Computer Engineering & Informatics' Degree here in Greece.

I'm already into software, I'm fooling around with java, go and php, making some games, web services and anything I find interesting in general. Recently, with the logic design class, I started liking hardware stuff (I didn't really like them before).

We're getting to a point where we might have to decide between picking hardware-centered or software centered subjects. I'm thinking that I can probably learn whatever is taught on the software side by myself (with a bit more studying of course), whereas hardware would be more difficult to study alone.

That said, I'm considering picking hardware, but I am skeptical. What do you think? I'll certainly miss out on the concurrent processing, data structure and how-a-compiler-works classes.

What do you think?

P.S. University here is free

To all Canadians here,
Looking to study computer science in university. For those of you with jobs in computer science, did u get a bachelor's degree and went straight to a job? Where did u study? Did u get a master's degree? For those not with a master's degree, would you recommend getting one? I'm lost 😭 I really want to try to go to University of Toronto to study computer science, but it's so competitive and I don't know if I'll even get in. Did any of you study there? How did it help in your career?

So I have a friend who recently has been forced to graduate with an ordinary degree even tho he was on track on achieving a 2:1. This is Scotland, so it's for 3 years ordinary degree. Do you recommend a transfer to another university with 2 more years to get honours, or start applying for jobs and forget about honors?

!rant

Question to the devs that hire.
Would you hire a developer with the qualifications:
- knows multiple programming languages (can be any but knows them well)
- has worked the past 6 years in the field however worked during his school life.
- started of career in web development and worked with high end clients, (big corps, businesses, celebs)
- does not have a CS or Engineering Degree (has a different degree that is remotely related)
- has failed his A Level exams (pre-college, high school board exams by Cambridge) (not that this matters)

Disclaimer: This is not about me. I was in an argument with my extended family about the importance of grade school education in work. My family consists of Teachers and School Administrators entirely. The above point all define me and I was successful enough to earn more than what my family does early on when joining college. I did however fail my alevels only to get a scholarship in a great University for my field.

Is quiting university because of obvious reasons to pursue a freelance web developer career a smart move?
I am just 21, sick of my teachers and environment and I feel that I would eventually fall into depression if I stay . I love to code, I dream code literally.
What are the long term consequences which I can't think of.
Devs please help me make a smart choice before I make biggest or smartest move of my life.
I am making just enough to sustain myself. Just Brought a MacBook air worth 1000k with little help from family.
Will not having a degree be an obstacle in my dev career.

Hello,

I am currently starting my last year in my apprenticeship as a software/application developer and I am really interested in further developing my programming and personal/social skills, as well as improving my english in speaking and writing.

Therefore i'd love to work within a few different countries across europe to get to know a lot of different working cultures, people etc.

Has anyone made an experience with working in other countries with just a finished apprenticeship?
Is a university degree recommended or even needed to work within other countries? What are your opinions on this?

Thanks in advance and kind regards!:)

Xaglom

So, just a random thought.
I'm attending my 2nd year of university and I'm thinking about what should I do after I get my degree (I should get it the next year). Most of my classmates want to get a master in something but I would like to work because I want to demonstrate to myself that I can do whatever I want but at the same time I feel like I'm not enough yet and that I will fail all the interviews so I'm in a fucking limbo between two choices. Aaaand that's it, sorry if I made some mistakes but it's 2:30AM in Italy and I'm pretty tired.

!rant
So I've come to a crossroads and I'm trying to work out what the best way forward is and I have a question for y'all.
Is a university degree still worth it in this field? Should I go for it and get my degree or spend that time learning myself? How does this effect getting a job? And if you could go back, what would you do.
Thanks in advance.

So I’m taking a class on compilers (currently a college student) and as I get further into a coding project we have to do I can feel and see my code degrading into a giant mass of spaghetti. Although I know that I should refactor it because it is messy (currently trying to find a balance between refactoring and actually getting the assignment done) the scary thing is some students in my class think this is perfectly normal code and is what good code looks like. Scary thought that so many people graduating from university have no concept of object orientation, reusability, etc... but what’s even scarier is most professors could not give two shits about any of these notions. I guess this is the biggest reason why a computer science degree does not prepare you for a job in industry.

When you have to do an assignment for university but the sheet with the instructions is so badly formated, that you have to read the whole sheet again to find a line. BTW the prof also have a philosophical degree.

I just started learning how to code and am very frustrated trying to find a degree to go into. I'm interested in becoming a Web Developer but the idea of being a CEH intrigues me also. Any ideas what programs or degrees I could go for? I'm near the University of central Florida if that helps. Please give me guidance for I am lost

Hey everyone, need some advice here. To give some background, I am 17 years old, and currently residing in New Zealand. I love software and have my career path set on being a developer, most likely full-stack web. (Windows/native development & Game development I wouldn't mind either). I would say I am confident in JavaScript (incl. TS), web-dev languages (HTML & CSS) and Python. And with less experience, but a strong interest in Rust, C# and C++. I plan to go to my local university to study Computer Science. Because of factors like my age, location, lack of previous job experience and degree(/s) make it hard to meet any requirements for the few jobs available locally, or even remotely. Anyways, what have you done to get where you are today or what would you recommend based on my current background? My main goal is to get my foot in the door than to "have money" or "be occupied", so if other paths like certifications or more temporary contract-like work (similar to Fiverr) is a better idea then let me know.

I'm just wondering how much a cs degree from a South African university holds up internationally ,different opinions all around

Can anyone suggest good resources for revising OOP principles etc?

I’m doing a degree with the Open University, and I have an exam at the end of this module, but I’ve not had a proper exam since I left school nearly 20 years ago.

I’ve been getting on OK with the various assignments etc so far, and I have all my text books etc, but I’m worried that’s I’m going to crash and burn come exam time.

I was thinking about my PhD as I will get my bachelor's degree this semester.

I was searching for top universities for cybersecurity PhD.
Sure I will have to get my master first

But what is your suggestion for PhD?
I am currently in love with Berlin university but not sure if it's a right choice.

I'm in need of an opinion.

I'm in my final year at my university and have finished all my major subjects. Lately I have been having the feeling that I am under utilizing my ability and That I can do a lot more than what I'm doing in my life.

Just to put into perspective, I have one heck of a resume with senior job positions.

I've been considering leaving or taking a break from my university so that I can at least see where I am in life and to fully utilize my skills to see if I can build a better life than the one I'm currently. Honestly, I have no "Raggrets". I just feel like I can do better now and come back to uni to finish my degree in the coming years.

What would your take be? Would it be okay for me to quit? Since I have epic network and people know me by my skills, I don't believe finding a good job would be hard. And I already have a pretty decent job. I just don't know if I should take a break from university or not.

Has anyone done Bsc in Computer and Information Systems from University of London International Programmes? Seems like the closest thing to a computer science degree I can get. Would like to know if it's any good.

Once again the department head fucks up my degree plan!

I'm getting my associates degree in Cyber Security. So we have to take networking courses and what not. So my institution recently became a Cisco certified teaching establishment or something along the lines of that.

The department head said that everyone who was enrolled in classes before the upcoming fall semester would have to take the new Cisco networking classes and not switch to the new degree plan. (We would take 3 Cisco classes instead of the new degree plan which is 5 or 6) so we planned and register for those classes.

Now he comes back and says we don't have to take those new classes. So it just fucks up the whole shit.

Switching to the new degree plan would add like 3 semesters to my total semester count and I'm supposed to graduate. August 2018

Fuck this new shit. Even tho I need Cisco.

I plan on taking The Cisco classes after I graduate with my associates degree while I'm going to a university for a dual degree in Software Engineering and Cyber Security

Today I'm starting interviewcamp.io. I graduated from a 4-year university in California with a degree in computer engineering and have almost 3 years of work experience, but my god I am terrible at algorithms.

Big O (time and space complexity), recursion, Binary Search Trees, reversing a fucking linked list, etc. I need the boost and I hope the $250 a year for the material will help me get at least a $5k increase in salary when jumping to another company after the whole pandemic (or get a raise at my current job).

If anyone has any experience with them let me know. So far I'm 2 hours in and it is nice so far.

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