My 80 year old very absent minded dad made a website, all by himself, using a two decades old book he got from the thrift store.

He's even hosting it himself on an old laptop running Debian, including a redirect to a beautiful nostalgic /~username/index.htm url (not gonna share the link, because his personal details are on there).

The whole site is incredibly carefully crafted, and I'm super proud of him.

Who cares if it's not a React app? The 14 kilobytes of HTML 4.0 markup load in 20-30ms, and it renders pretty much perfectly in every browser including Internet Explorer 4 and Edge.

🤷‍♂❤️

After I submitted a code review:

Coworker: What did you mean with this comment?

Me: **translating the comment to Portuguese** Your Footer component isn't rendering any footer element.

Coworker: **blank stare** what?

Me: There is no footer tag here. **points to Footer component**

Coworker: **computing... found approximate result** I'm rendering the Footer here. **shows me where the Footer component is being rendered**

Me: **internal facepalm** Yes, I know, but I'm not talking about that. I'm saying that inside the Footer component you should be rendering a footer element.

Coworker: **segmentation fault** what?

And then I had to explain that there is an HTML footer element. To a mid level frontend developer (or so they say).

HTML is not only divs, for fuck sake.

How web developers debug their markup...

.someBox {
background-color: pink;
}

oh the rage..

I wonder how much extra luggage it needs to carry css and js.

TABLE BASED WEB DESIGN

I was surprised there were no rants about this topic before I realized it was more than a decade back 😳

We've never had it better! So to help add a little perspective for all those ranting about what is unarguably the golden age for web developers... let me fill you in on web dev in the late 90's;

JavaScript was a joke. No seriously! - I once got laughed out of the room for suggesting we try use it for more than disabling a button - (I wanted to check out the new XHR request thingy [read AJAX]).

HTML was simple and purely a markup language (with the exception of the marquee tag). The tags were basically just p,ul,ol,h*,form inputs,img and table and html took 10 minutes to learn. Any style was inline and equally crude - anything that wasn't crude could not be trusted and probably wouldn't render at all in most browsers (never mind render correctly).

There were rumors of a style TAG and something called a cascading style sheet which were received with much skepticism since it went against the old ways and any time saved would be lost writing multiple [IE version specific] style sheets for each browser just to get it to work - so we simply didn't.

No CSS meant the only tags you had to work with to create a structured layout were br, hr and table... so naturally EVERYTHING was in nested tables! JS callback hell can't touch this! - it was not uncommon to have 50+ nested tables all with inline style in a single page which would be edited without any dev tools or linting.

You would spend 30 minutes scanning td tags until your eyes bled to find something, make a change, ftp the file to the server, reload the web page and then spend 10 minutes staring at the devastation on your screen convinced you broke
the internet before spotting an un-closed td tag with your bloodshot eyes.

Tables were not just a silver bullet - they were the ONLY bullet and were in the wild west!

Q: Want an inline form or to align your inputs left?
A: Duh table!

Q: Want a border with round-corners, a shadow or blur?
A: That's easy! Your gonna want to put that table in the center cell of another table then crop a image of the border into 6 smaller images to put in the surrounding cells... oh and then spend 10 minutes fucking with mystical attributes like cell-padding and valign to get them flush.

...But hey at least on the bright-side vertically & horizontally centering stuff was a breeze!

A sidebar.
Literally just a sidebar.
And yes, this was in Hell.

Its code was spread across at least 40 files, and it used a bunch of freaking global variables to unfurl accordion sections, hide other sections/items, highlight the active item, etc. These were set (and unset!) in controller actions, so if you didn’t unset one, it remained open and highlighted until another action unset it.

Some of the global variable checks (and permissions checks) were done in the individual views, some outside of the `render` statements that include them. Some of them inherited variables from the parent, some from the controller, some from globals. Getting a view to work was trial and error. Oh, and some had their own inline css, some used css classes.

Subsections were separate views, so were some individual items, both sometimes rendered using shared templates, and all of the views and templates had the exact. same. filename. (They were located in different directories, and thus located automagically via implicit relative paths.) So, it was a virtually endless parade of`render partial => “sidebar”`. Which file does that point to? Good luck figuring it out!

Also, comments in several places said adding a new section required a database migration. I never did figure out why.

Anyway, I discovered this because I had an innocuous-sounding ticket to rearrange the sidebar, group some sections/items under different permissions, move some items to another menu, and nest some others differently.

It took me two bloody weeks, and this was when I was extremely productive every day.

Afterward, I was so disgusted by it that I took a day and removed every trace of the sidebar I could find, and rewrote it. I defined the sidebar in a hash, and wrote a simple recursive builder to generate the markup. It supported optional icons, n-level nesting, automatic highlighting of the current item and all parent nodes, compound and inherited permissions, wrapping of long names, hover and unfurl animations, etc. Took me a couple hundred lines of Ruby at the most, plus about the same of css.

Felt so good to remove that blight.

Everyone when writing HTML:

<header></header>
<section>
<ul>
<li></li>
</ul>
</section>
<footer></footer>

ME:

<div><div></div></div>
<div><div><span><div></div></span></div></div>
<div><div></div></div>

I'm trying to sign up for insurance benefits at work.

Step 1: Trying to find the website link -- it's non-existent. I don't know where I found it, but I saved it in keepassxc so I wouldn't have to search again. Time wasted: 30 minutes.

Step 2: Trying to log in. Ostensibly, this uses my work account. It does not. Time wasted: 10 minutes.

Step 3: Creating an account. Username and Password requirements are stupid, and the page doesn't show all of them. The username must be /[A-Za-z0-9]{8,60}/. The maximum password length is VARCHAR(20), and must include upper/lower case, number, special symbol, etc. and cannot include "password", repeated charcters, your username, etc. There is also a (required!) hint with /[A-Za-z0-9 ]{8,60}/ validation. Want to type a sentence? better not use any punctuation!

I find it hilarious that both my username and password hint can be three times longer than my actual password -- and can contain the password. Such brilliant security.

My typical username is less than 8 characters. All of my typical password formats are >25 characters. Trying to figure out memorable credentials and figuring out the hidden complexity/validation requirements for all of these and the hint... Time wasted: 30 minutes.

Step 4: Post-login. The website, post-login, does not work in firefox. I assumed it was one of my many ad/tracker/header/etc. blockers, and systematically disabled every one of them. After enabling ad and tracker networks, more and more of the site loaded, but it always failed. After disabling bloody everything, the site still refused to work. Why? It was fetching deeply-nested markup, plus styling and javascript, encoded in xml, via api. And that xml wasn't valid xml (missing root element). The failure wasn't due to blocking a vitally-important ad or tracker (as apparently they're all vital and the site chain-loads them off one another before loading content), it's due to shoddy development and lack of testing. Matches the rest of the site perfectly. Anyway, I eventually managed to get the site to load in Safari, of all browsers, on a different computer. Time wasted: 40 minutes.

Step 5: Contact info. After getting the site to work, I clicked the [Enroll] button. "Please allow about 10 minutes to enroll," it says. I'm up to an hour and 50 minutes by now. The first thing it asks for is contact info, such as email, phone, address, etc. It gives me a warning next to phone, saying I'm not set up for notifications yet. I think that's great. I select "change" next to the email, and try to give it my work email. There are two "preferred" radio buttons, one next to "Work email," one next to "Personal email" -- but there is only one textbox. Fine, I select the "Work" preferred button, sign up for a faux-personal tutanota email for work, and type it in. The site complains that I selected "Work" but only entered a personal email. Seriously serious. Out of curiosity, I select the "change" next to the phone number, and see that it gives me four options (home, work, cell, personal?), but only one set of inputs -- next to personal. Yep. That's amazing. Time spent: 10 minutes.

Step 6: Ranting. I started going through the benefits, realized it would take an hour+ to add dependents, research the various options, pick which benefits I want, etc. I'm already up to two hours by now, so instead I decided to stop and rant about how ridiculous this entire thing is. While typing this up, the site (unsurprisingly) automatically logged me out. Fine, I'll just log in again... and get an error saying my credentials are invalid. Okay... I very carefully type them in again. error: invalid credentials. sajfkasdjf.

Step 7 is going to be: Try to figure out how to log in again. Ugh.

"Please allow about 10 minutes" it said. Where's that facepalm emoji?

But like, seriously. How does someone even build a website THIS bad?

Just had a React Developer tell me HTML5 data attributes "pollute" markup.

/me wonders if he's every seen the markup React generates

"I'm going to manage to make this webpage without so many divs"

"Oh. I need a div there"

"There too"

"Yes, and there ofc."

*looks back at markup*

*sobs*

Writing HTML is not coding. You can't relate to me.

Had a heated argument on whether HTML’s a fuckin programming language or not and he claims to have 8 years experience...

Fuck bro, that dense? Everyone knows its a fuckin markup language

Making a contest site for a client. It's 2 parts, a static part and then a "hub" where the contest actually takes part. I did most of the static part, and uploaded it to show her. She likes it, but wants to be able to change the content automatically without having to talk to me. Ok, I think. The harder part is the contest site, so she's not gonna run away with my code. I give her access to the ftp and teach her what to do.

To my amazement she takes a liking to html. And starts adding some (super simple) tags. They ruin some of my designs but they look fine. Whatever.

Today she messages me saying that the top picture is off. Hmm, I'll check it out. Turns out almost the entire page is ruined. What's even worse is that she inserted a link to a facebook image she has on top of everything, a picture I don't have access to, and yet she's refusing to admit that it was her mistake. It's not even wrapped in an img tag, it's just pure text!!!

Fine. I'll revert to the version I had. No! cz apparently I can't undo all the changes she's worked hard on. So now I have to go through all the markup and check what's causing this -- and I hate frontend!!!

Worst part of this all? She can't fucking be bothered to type out what her whore infested lying mouth wants to say. She has to send me voicenotes, a few minutes long, filled with uhhh ummm let me think, because that brain who thought learning to write <br/> and <em> is bad ass can't FUCKING formulate a thought before sending it. She has to have me stop my music, and stop my concentration just so she can tell me maybe she pasted it by mistake IN A 5 MINUTE VOICE NOTE. tbh the money isn't even that good. I don't know why I'm still here.

PS: it's not missing an include. I checked.

I'm editing the sidebar on one of our websites, and shuffling some entries. It involves moving some entries in/out of a dropdown and contextual sidebars, in/out of submenus, etc. It sounds a little tedious but overall pretty trivial, right?

This is day three.
I learned React+Redux from scratch (and rebuilt the latter for fun) in twice that long.

In my defense, I've been working on other tasks (see: Alerts), but mostly because I'd rather gouge my freaking eyes out than continue on this one.

Everything that could be wrong about this is. Everything that could be over-engineered is. Everything that could be written worse... can't, actually; it's awful.

Major grievances:
1) The sidebars (yes, there are several) are spread across a ridiculous number of folders. I stopped counting at 20.
2) Instead of icon fonts, this uses multiple images for entry states.
3) The image filenames don't match the menu entry names. at all. ("sb_gifts.png" -> orders); active filenames are e.g. "sb_giftsactive.png"
4) The actions don't match the menu entry names.
5) Menu state is handled within the root application controller, and doesn't use bools, but strings. (and these state flags never seem to get reset anywhere...)
6) These strings are used to construct the image filenames within the sidebar views/partials.
7) Sometimes access restrictions (employee, manager, etc.) are around the individual menu entries, sometimes they're around a partial include, meaning it's extremely difficult to determine which menu entries/sections/subsections are permission-locked without digging through everything.
8) Within different conditionals there are duplicate blocks markup, with duplicate includes, that end up render different partials/markup due to different state.
9) There are parent tags outside of includes, such as `<ul>#{render 'horrific-eye-stabbing'}</ul>`
10) The markup differs per location: sometimes it's a huge blob of non-semantic filthiness, sometimes it's a simple div+span. Example filth: section->p->a->(img,span) ... per menu entry.
11) In some places, the markup is broken, e.g. `<li><u>...</li></u>`
12) In other places, markup is used for layout adjustments, such as an single &nbsp; nested within several divs adorned with lots of styles/classes.
13) Per-device layouts are handled, not within separate views, but by conditionally enabling/disabling swaths of markup, e.g. (if is_cordova_session?).
14) `is_cordova_session` in particular is stored within a cookie that does not expire, and within your user session. disabling it is annoying and very non-obvious. It can get set whether or not you're using cordova.
15) There are virtually no stylesheets; almost everything is inline (but of course not actually everything), which makes for fun layout debugging.
16) Some of the markup (with inline styling, no less) is generated within a goddamn controller.
17) The markup does use css classes, but it's predominately not for actual styling: they're used to pick out elements within unit tests. An example class name: "hide-for-medium-down"; and no, I can't figure out what it means, even when looking at the tests that use it. There are no styles attached to that particular class.
18) The tests have not been updated for three years, and that last update was an rspec version bump.
19) Mixed tabs and spaces, with mixed indentation level (given spaces, it's sometimes 2, 4, 4, 5, or 6, and sometimes one of those levels consistently, plus an extra space thereafter.)
20) Intentional assignment within conditionals (`if var=possibly_nil_return_value()`)
21) hardcoded (and occasionally incorrect) values/urls.

... and last but not least:
22) Adding a new "menu sections unit" (I still haven't determined what the crap that means) requires changing two constants and writing a goddamn database migration.

I'm not even including minor annoyances like non-enclosed ternaries, poor naming conventions, commented out code, highly inefficient code, a 512-character regex (at least it's even, right?), etc.

just.

what the _fuck_

Who knew a sidebar could be so utterly convoluted?

>be me
>I hate front-end dev, but I can do it. I hate switching between markup, styling, and logic.
>I like back-end and low level programming
>stay unemployed for a year and a half, because all offers are for React and Angular
>find backend job, yay
>they actually make me work on front-end shit
>mfw pic related

Can we all take a moment to appreciate what a complete mess web technologies are.

We're abusing a markup language made for scientific writing, by styling it with css and in order to make it dynamic somehow, we run a weird ass scripting language on the clientside.

Because nobody really wants to use this burning garbage can, some of us invented web frameworks.

And let's not get started on php...

Scripting languages, markup languages, database querying languages, etc. Are all types of programming languages. A program is a set of instructions for a computer to follow.

HTML is a programming language, fight me.

When a Coursera course is way better than the one offered by your university…
A university student's rant...

I study Electrical and Computer Engineering and during the first semester of the second year I selected an optional course: Web Programming. It was believed among students that the course would be really easy, and it was. All the student had to do was build a very simple website using HTML, CSS and a few line of JS. A website containing three or four pages all of which had to be validated using a markup validation service.

Yeah, sure, I passed the course just like everyone else who bothered enough to spend an hour or two working on the project. Oh, I almost forgot! We had an one-hour workshop on Dreamweaver!
So, by that point, everybody was a front-end developer, right?!

That happened over three years ago, and because of that course web-development didn’t impress me…

Thankfully, the last few months I’ve became interested in Web Development, and I’ve been reading some articles, spending time on smashing magazine, making some progress on FreeCodeCamp and taking relevant courses on Coursera!
In fact, a few days ago I completed the Coursera course “HTML, CSS and Javascript for Web Developers”.
Oh boy, the things I didn’t know that I didn’t know…

<sarcasm>Did you know there was a term called “responsive design” and that there are frameworks like bootstrap?</sarcasm>
Well, I d i d n ’ t k n o w ! ! ! (even though I had taken the university’s course).

I understand that bootstrap was introduced in 2011 and I took the university course in late 2012, but by that time, bootstrap was quite popular and also there were other frameworks available before bootstrap that could have been included in the course! (even today, there is no reference in responsive design in the university’s course).
In just five weeks the coursera course managed to teach me more, in a more organized and meaningful way than my university’s course in a whole semester!

When I started the coursera course I shared it with a friend of mine. His response: “yeah, sure, but web development is pretty easy… I didn’t spend much time to complete that project three years ago!”

That course three years ago gave birth to misconceptions in students' minds that web development is easy! Yeah, sure, it can be easy to built a simple, non responsive, non interactive website! But that's not how the world works nowadays , right?!

A few months ago, in the early days of August, I attended Flock, the Fedora community conference. During a break I spent some time speaking with a Red Hat employee about student internships. He told me, and I paraphrase: “We know that students don’t have a solid background and that they haven’t learned in the university what we need them to!”

Currently I’m planning to apply for a front-end developer internship position here in Greece.
Yesterday I wrote my CV, added university courses relevant to that position and listed coursera courses under independent coursework… While writing those I made these thoughts…

What if that course 3 years ago was as good as the coursera course… all the things I’d know by now…

I worked for over 13 hours yesterday on super-urgent projects. I got so much done it's insane.

Projects:
1) the printer auto-configuration script.
2) changing Stripe from test mode to live mode in production
3) website responsiveness

I finished two within five minutes and pushed to both QA and Production. actually urgent, actually necessary. Easy change.

The printer auto-configure script was honestly fun to write, if very involved. However, the APIs I needed to call to fetch data, create a printer client, etc... none of them were tested, and they were _all_ broken in at least two ways. The CTO (api guy in my previous rant) was slow at fixing them, so getting the APIs working took literally four hours. One of them (test print) still doesn't work.

Responsiveness... this was my first time making a website responsive. Ever. Also, one of the pages I needed to style was very complicated (nested fixed-aspect-ratio + flexbox); I ended up duplicating the markup and hacking the styling together just to make it work. The code is horrible. But! "Friday's the day! it's going live and we're pushing traffic to it!" So, I invested a lot of time and energy into making it ready and as pretty as I could, and finally got it working. That page alone took me two hours.

The site and the printer script (and obv the Stripe change as well) absolutely needed to be done by this morning. Super important.

well.

1) Auto-configure script. Ostensibly we would have an intern come in and configure the printers. However, we have no printers that need configuring, so she did marketing instead. :/ Also, the docs Epson sent us only work for the T88V printer (we have exactly one, which we happened to set up and connect to). They do not work for the T88VI printers, which is what we ordered. and all we'll ever be ordering. So. :/ I'll need to rewrite a large chunk of my code to make this work. Joy :/

2) Stripe Live mode. Nobody even seemed to notice that we were collecting info in Test mode, or that I fixed it. so. um. :/

3) Responsiveness.
Well. That deadline is actually next Wednesday. The marketing won't even start until then, and I haven't even been given the final changes yet (like come on). Also! I asked for a QA review last night before I'd push it to production. One person glanced at it. Nobody else cared. Nobody else cared enough to look in the morning, either, so it's still on QA. Super-important deadline indeed. :/

Honestly?

I feel like Alice (from Dilbert) after she worked frantically on urgent projects that ended up just being cancelled. (That one where Wally smells that lovely buttery-popcorn scent of unnecessary work.)

I worked 13 hours yesterday.
for nothing.

fucking. hell.

When people tell me they code in html 😂

Web Development on a single laptop is tough....

Window 1: editor, tabs for markup, styles, server, terminal

Window 2: browser...so small that everything is in low res mode, if not mobile.

Window 3: database, stress testing system and making sure data flows properly.

Window 4: design specs.

*shudders*

Once one of my coworkers tried to prank me while i was afk and changed a line in my code.
Good old habits of mine instantly realized the file's unsaved status and i could ctrl+z without even knowing someone edited my code.

Don't mess with a developer. We know our shit.

Sometimes violence is the only one answer.

Why is it so important to some people to claim that "HTML and CSS are not programming languages"? I get it, you're a REAL programmer working with arrays, maybe tuples, objects and possibly direct memory management. Who the fuck has a right to call themselves a programmer for writing some brain dead markup or poorly designed selectors, right? Who fucking cares for semantic tags or nested selectors?

Just think for a few seconds about when you were taking your first baby steps to becoming the GOD ROCKING MEMORY HANDLER THAT WRITES _REAL_ CODE that you are today, and how good it felt to be able to create something that appeared on your screen. It felt pretty awesome, yeah?

Now imagine if someone much more experienced than you told you "You're not a real programmer, that is not real programming. You should see what I do, I do real programming".

I think you get it. Why spend your energy spreading bad vibes when you could spend it on something more productive. Like reading up on the new CSS4 specs ;)

I am much too tired to go into details, probably because I left the office at 11:15pm, but I finally finished a feature. It doesn't even sound like a particularly large or complicated feature. It sounds like a simple, 1-2 day feature until you look at it closely.

It took me an entire fucking week. and all the while I was coaching a junior dev who had just picked up Rails and was building something very similar.

It's the model, controller, and UI for creating a parent object along with 0-n child objects, with default children suggestions, a fancy ui including the ability to dynamically add/remove children via buttons. and have the entire happy family save nicely and atomically on the backend. Plus a detailed-but-simple listing for non-technicals including some absolutely nontrivial css acrobatics.

After getting about 90% of everything built and working and beautiful, I learned that Rails does quite a bit of this for you, through `accepts_nested_params_for :collection`. But that requires very specific form input namespacing, and building that out correctly is flipping difficult. It's not like I could find good examples anywhere, either. I looked for hours. I finally found a rails tutorial vide linked from a comment on a SO answer from five years ago, and mashed its oversimplified and dated examples with the newer documentation, and worked around the issues that of course arose from that disasterous paring.

like.
I needed to store a template of the child object markup somewhere, yeah? The video had me trying to store all of the markup in a `data-fields=" "` attrib. wth? I tried storing it as a string and injecting it into javascript, but that didn't work either. parsing errors! yay! good job, you two.

So I ended up storing the markup (rendered from a rails partial) in an html comment of all things, and pulling the markup out of the comment and gsubbing its IDs on document load. This has the annoying effect of preventing me from using html comments in that partial (not that i really use them anyway, but.)

Just.
Every step of the way on building this was another mountain climb.
* singular vs plural naming and routing, and named routes. and dealing with issues arising from existing incorrect pluralization.
* reverse polymorphic relation (child -> x parent)
* The testing suite is incompatible with the new rails6. There is no fix. None. I checked. Nope. Not happening.
* Rails6 randomly and constantly crashes and/or caches random things (including arbitrary code changes) in development mode (and only development mode) when working with multiple databases.
* nested form builders
* styling a fucking checkbox
* Making that checkbox (rather, its label and container div) into a sexy animated slider
* passing data and locals to and between partials
* misleading documentation
* building the partials to be self-contained and reusable
* coercing form builders into namespacing nested html inputs the way Rails expects
* input namespacing redux, now with nested form builders too!
* Figuring out how to generate markup for an empty child when I'm no longer rendering the children myself
* Figuring out where the fuck to put the blank child template markup so it's accessible, has the right namespacing, and is not submitted with everything else
* Figuring out how the fuck to read an html comment with JS
* nested strong params
* nested strong params
* nested fucking strong params
* caching parsed children's data on parent when the whole thing is bloody atomic.
* Converting datetimes from/to milliseconds on save/load
* CSS and bootstrap collisions
* CSS and bootstrap stupidity
* Reinventing the entire multi-child / nested params / atomic creating/updating/deleting feature on my own before discovering Rails can do that for you.

Just.
I am so glad it's working.
I don't even feel relieved. I just feel exhausted.

But it's done.
finally.

and it's done well. It's all self-contained and reusable, it's easy to read, has separate styling and reusable partials, etc. It's a two line copy/paste drop-in for any other model that needs it. Two lines and it just works, and even tells you if you screwed up.

I'm incredibly proud of everything that went into this.
But mostly I'm just incredibly tired.

Time for some well-deserved sleep.

According to my predecessor, nothing showcases your SQL skills quite like generating the entire page (markup, JavaScript and all) from a single 2500 line query.

I see too many back-end rants against front-ends.

Should we talk about table layouts, malformed html, programatically generated spaghetti wrong markup, css absurd class naming, infinite div wrapping (div-itis), awful usability, poor legibility, terrible typography, wrong color palettes and user-unfriedly design? To name a few horrors i've seen so far.

Some people won't admit that their contempt against HTML and CSS being 'not real code' actually hides their inability or unwillingness to learn it. Or they need the feeling of superiority.

Bootcrap. Just looked at their main page, and it's a whopping 75k of markup plus 294k of CSS (W-T-F?!), and 224k of JS. All of that shit for a page that shouldn't be more than 10k of markup, 16k of CSS, and that has no reason to even use JS at all.

<a class="d-flex flex-column flex-lg-row justify-content-center align-items-center mb-4 text-dark lh-sm text-decoration-none

Yeah, that crap is supposed to be "easier" to write. That's what you get for totally failing to understand how HTML/CSS even work, clinging to late 1990s practices, and ditching decades of progress since then.

Although the Bootcrap folks do manage to write valid HTML. As low as that sounds, but that counts already as an exceptional skill in the notoriously low-skilled frontend "dev" world that is all about making shitty websites.

Oh, and the rest like Failwind and Bulimia aren't any better. They already fail at delivering valid HTML on their websites.

Am I the only one that gets fucking pissed when others write unnecessary <div>s?

I know sometimes it's necessary for styling, but my coworkers do it because it's easier to add a new div than extending the style of an existing element.

What's worst, when I do it they reject my PR saying to create a new div instead. Fucking fuck off.

FML
Apparently that's the markup language my life has been built upon

I’m trying to add digit separators to a few amount fields. There’s actually three tickets to do this in various places, and I’m working on the last of them.

I had a nightmare debugging session earlier where literally everything would 404 unless I navigated through the site in a very roundabout way. I never did figure out the cause, but I found a viable workaround. Basically: the house doesn’t exist if you use the front door, but it’s fine if you go through the garden gate, around the back, and crawl in through the side window. After hours of debugging I eventually discovered that if I unlocked the front door with a different key, everything was fine… but nobody else has this problem?

Whatever.
Onto the problem at hand!

I’m trying to add digit separators to some values. I found a way to navigate to the page in question (more difficult than it sounds), and … I don’t know what view is rendering the page. Or what controller. Or how it generates its text.

The URL is encrypted, so I get no clues there. (Which was lead dev’s solution to having scrapeable IDs instead of just, you know, fixing them). The encryption also happens in middleware, so it’s a nightmare to work through. And it’s by the lead dev, so the code is fucking atrocious.

The view… could be one of many, and I don’t even know where they are. Or what layout. Or what partials go into building it.

All of the text on the page are “resources” — think named translations that support plus nested macros. I don’t know their names, and the bits of text I can search for are used fucking everywhere. “Confirmation number” (the most unique of them) turns up 79 matches. “Fee” showed up in 8310 places before my editor gave up looking. Really.

The table displaying the data, which is what I actually care about, isn’t built in JS or markup, but is likely a resource that goes through heavy processing. It gets generated in a controller somewhere (I don’t know the resource name so I can’t find it), and passed through several layers of “dynamic form” abstraction, eventually turned into markup, and rendered as a partial template. At least, that’s how it worked in the previous ticket. I found a resource that looks right, and there’s only the one. I found the nested macros it uses for the amount and total, and added the separators there… only to find that it doesn’t work.

Fucking dead end.

And i have absolutely nothing else to go on.

Page title? “Show”
URL? /~LiolV8N8KrIgaozEgLv93s…
Text? All from macros with unknown names. Can’t really search for it without considerable effort.
Table? Doesn’t work.
Text in the table? doesn’t turn up anything new.
Legal agreement? There are multiple, used in many places, generates them dynamically via (of course) resources, and even looking through the method usages, doesn’t narrow it down very much.

Just.
What the fuck?
Why does this need to be so fucking complicated?

And what genius decided “$100000.00” doesn’t need separators? Right, the lot of them because separators aren’t used ANYWHERE but in code I authored. Like, really? This is fintech. You’d think they would be ubiquitous.

And the sheer amount of abstraction?
Stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid.

I used to write HTML line by line.

and then someone showed me emmet.

life has never been the same since.

preface context: I was recently asked to make a website for an event I participated in before

client: okay I heard you can make a website for our event? that’s great!
me (dev): yeah, do you have any requests or expectations for me?
.
client: not really, but I was a developer before and I can code a bit so I’m wondering in what language would you code or develop our website in?
me: oh I would be using JavaScript, specifically nodeJS
.
client: oh really? i’m not really familiar with that language, so is it okay if you code it in a language I understand and used before?
me: sure, what is it?
.
(lol I wonder if you can guess already what it is at this point)
client: HTML
me: ... (*uh oh* html isn’t a markup language *sigh*) :——)

when you try to have more than 20 bots in telegram

If you don't know how to explain about your software, but you want to be featured in Forbes (or other shitty sites) as quickly as possible, copy this:

I am proud that this software used high-tech technology and algorithms such as blockchain, AI (artificial intelligence), ANN (Artificial Neural Network), ML (machine learning), GAN (Generative Adversarial Network), CNN (Convolutional Neural Network), RNN (Recurrent Neural Network), DNN (Deep Neural Network), TA (text analysis), Adversarial Training, Sentiment Analysis, Entity Analysis, Syntatic Analysis, Entity Sentiment Analysis, Factor Analysis, SSML (Speech Synthesis Markup Language), SMT (Statistical Machine Translation), RBMT (Rule Based Machine Translation), Knowledge Discovery System, Decision Support System, Computational Intelligence, Fuzzy Logic, GA (Genetic Algorithm), EA (Evolutinary Algorithm), and CNTK (Computational Network Toolkit).

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

Chrome, Firefox, and yes even you Opera, Falkon, Midori and Luakit. We need to talk, and all readers should grab a seat and prepare for some reality checks when their favorite web browsers are in this list.

I've tried literally all of them, in search for a lightweight (read: not ridiculously bloated) web browser. None of them fit the bill.

Yes Midori, you get a couple of bonus points for being the most lightweight. Luakit however.. as much as I like vim in my terminal, I do not want it in a graphical application. Not to mention that just like all the others you just use webkit2gtk, and therefore are just as bloated as all the others. Lightweight my ass! But programmable with Lua, woo! Not like Selenium, Chrome headless, ... does that for any browser. And that's it for the unique features as far as I'm concerned. One is slow, single-threaded and lightweight-ish (Midori) and another has vim keybindings in an application that shouldn't (Luakit).

Pretty much all of them use webkit2gtk as their engine, and pretty much all of them launch a separate process for each tab. People say this is more secure, but I have serious doubts about that. You're still running all these processes as the same user, and they all have full access to the X server they run under (this is also a criticism against user separation on a single X session in general). The only thing it protects against is a website crashing the browser, where only that tab and its process would go down. Which.. you know.. should a webpage even be able to do that?

But what annoys me the most is the sheer amount of memory that all of these take. With all due respect all of you browsers, I am not quite prepared to give 8 fucking gigabytes - half the memory in this whole box! - just for a dozen or so tabs. I shouldn't have to move my web browser to another lesser used 16GB box, just to prevent this one from going into fucking swap from a dozen tabs. And before someone has a go at the add-ons, there's 4 installed and that's it. None of them are even close to this complete and utter memory clusterfuck. It's the process separation. Each process consumes half a GB of memory, and there's around a dozen of them in a usual browsing session. THAT is the real problem. And I want to get rid of it.

Browsers are at their pinnacle of fucked up in my opinion, literally to the point where I'm seriously considering elinks. Being a sysadmin, I already live my daily life in terminals anyway. As such I also do have resources. But because of that I also associate every process with its cost to run it, in terms of resources required. Web browsers are easily at the top of the list.

I want to put 8GB into perspective. You can store nearly 2 entire DVD movies in that memory. However media players used to play them (such as SMPlayer) obviously don't do that. They use 60-80MB on average to play the whole movie. They also require far less processing power than YouTube in a web browser does, even when you download that exact same video with youtube-dl (either streamed within the media player or externally). That is what an application should be.

Let's talk a bit about these "complicated" websites as well. I hate to break it to you framework web devs, but you're a dime a dozen. The competition is high between web devs for that exact reason. And websites are not complicated. The document itself is plain old HTML, yes even if your framework converts to it in the background. That's the skeleton of your document, where I would draw a parallel with documents in office suites that are more or less written in XML. CSS.. oh yes, markup. Embolden that shit, yes please! And JavaScript.. oh yes, that pile of shit that's been designed in half a day, and has a framework called fucking isEven (which does exactly what it says on the tin, modulo 2 be damned). Fancy some macros in your text editor? Yes, same shit, different pile.

Imagine your text editor being as bloated as a web browser. Imagine it being prone to crashing tabs like a web browser. Imagine it being so ridiculously slow to get anything done in your productivity suite. But it's just the usual with web browsers, isn't it? Maybe Gopher wasn't such a bad idea after all... Oh and give me another update where I have to restart the browser when I commit the heinous act of opening another tab, just because you had to update your fucking CA certs again. Yes please!

- Fuck mobile apps that open links in embedded browser windows
- Fuck Wordpress page builders that use the single content field as an embedded IDrag&DropE.
- Fuck unindented HTML markup
- Fuck plugins with "pro" versions that provide more than 50% of the advertised features.
- Fuck building an app with a SPA framework and then adding SSR cuz ur SEO is fucked.
- Fuck Javascript transitions that are meant to make a site look fancy but slow it the fuck down.

Fuck it.

Vent your frustrations

I know HTML (HyperText Markup Language)

So this happened today.
Trying hard not to judge :/

Later the person also said and I quote:

"It is a markup language or what? We had PHP for that."

When the project manager (who knows nothing about code) tells me how to structure HTML markup. No, please, tell me how to do my job.

If you know what I mean!!

The moment you enable the PHP warnings in your company and you want to delete all your coworkers code.

#why #you #do #this #to #me

Why is it that CS students with no industry experience lament about HTML all the time?

I don't get the weird obsession with talking about how it's "not a programming language"
No one who knows what they're talking about is claiming it is.

Hyper Text *Markup* Language.

Markup is in the name.

Must nearly every recently-made piece of software be terrible?

Firefox runs terribly slowly on a four-core 1.6GHz processor when given eight (8) gigabytes of RAM. Discord's user interface is awfully slow and uses unnecessary animations. Google's stuff is just falling apart; a toaster notification regarding MRO stock was recently pushed such that some markup elements of this notification were visible in the notification, the download links which are generated by Google Drive have sometimes returned error 404, and Google's software is overall sluggish and somewhat unstable. Today, an Android phone failed to update the Google Drive application... and failed to return a meaningful error message. Comprehensive manuals appear to be increasingly often not provided. Microsoft began to digest Windows after Windows XP was released.

Laziness is not virtuous.

For all computer programs, a computer program should be written such that this computer program performs well on reasonably terrible hardware... and kept simple. The UNIX philosophy is woefully underappreciated.

Just wrote my own webpack plugin for VueJS.

In serverless application there isn't a good way to pre render a single page web application as there is no server to do this task.

What we can do is use serverside rendering with webpack to locally (or in CI) generate the static HTML markup and include them in a template file like EJS.

In that way, the client browsers would not have to wait for the initial render and the search engines will also be happy.

This feels good! Time to upload it as a npm package 😇

Everything about the company is a mess. The only thing that is decent is the people. And by that I mean they aren't shit.
Workflows are fucked.
Clients are fucked. You're pressuring me to get this shit production ready before new year's eve and you still don't know what the text should say and want to make changes to the UI? The fuck?!
Design is a complete shit show. There is a design team. They only make a fucking psd to show clients how an interface would look like. No mobile version (but it's still expected to work!), no markup. Resolution is fucking inconsistent and whenever a change is requested, they are nowhere to be seen so I have to actually do designing on top of having to use this worthless fucking framework I hate it so much.
Codebases are turbo-fucked because of said framework.
Databases are an inconsistent, fucked up mess. No foreign key constraints because every single fucking table is using the MyISAM engine.

And the thing that really makes me incredibly angry is all the "custom systems" look the fucking same at the database level. Like 30 fucking useless tables made for stupid HR workflows that make no fucking sense.

This morning, I felt pretty good. I had a healthy breakfast and I took the longer U-bahn journey into work so as to enjoy the Autumn scenery. I get to my desk after greeting my colleagues with the customary "Guten Morgen" and I began to plan my work for the day. I see there is a new ticket assigned to me which relates to a HTML issue. The customer support team are able to use a HTML editor to made changes to a section of a user's dashboard and from time to time, I get asked to fix their mistakes. Usually, it is something small, but it makes me cringe every time I see the markup. "Tables...tables everywhere!!!", sighed the once happy dev.

Time for a coffee break and a sit-down with the support team

Started to redesign my wifes website into grid-layout with SASS. It is fun and I save a lot of markup HTML.
I try to keep the green theme, but I realy suck at design... I just have no eye for colors. I rather would keep everything white and grey...

That moment when your online competition reaches an almost godlike plane of existence as SEO strategists by placing the literal google analytics code in the literal head of the website. Organic traffic through the roof.

(long post is long)
This one is for the .net folks. After evaluating the technology top to bottom and even reimplementing several examples I commonly use for smoke testing new technology, I'm just going to call it:

Blazor is the next Silverlight.

It's just beyond the pale in terms of being architecturally flawed, and yet they're rushing it out as hard as possible to coincide with the .Net 5 rebranding silo extravaganza. We are officially entering round 3 of "sacrifice .Net on the altar of enterprise comfort." Get excited.

Since we've arrived here, I can only assume the Asp.net Ajax fiasco is far enough in the past that a new generation of devs doesn't recall its inherent catastrophic weaknesses. The architecture was this:

1. Create a component as a "WebUserControl"
2. Any time a bound DOM operation occurs from user interaction, send a payload back to the server
3. The server runs the code to process the event; it spits back more HTML

Some client-side js then dutifully updates the UI by unceremoniously stuffing the markup into an element's innerHTML property like so much sausage.

If you understand that, you've adequately understood how Blazor works. There's some optimization like signalR WebSockets for update streaming (the first and only time most blazor devs will ever use WebSockets, I even see developers claiming that they're "using SignalR, Idserver4, gRPC, etc." because the template seeds it for them. The hubris.), but that's the gist. The astute viewer will have noticed a few things here, including the disconnect between repaints, inability to blend update operations and transitions, and the potential for absolutely obliterative, connection-volatile, abusive transactional logic flying back and forth to the server. It's the bring out your dead approach to seeing how much of your IT budget is dedicated to paying for bandwidth and CPU time.

Blazor goes a step further in the server-side render scenario and sends every DOM event it binds to the server for processing. These include millisecond-scale events like scroll, which, at least according to GitHub issues, devs are quickly realizing requires debouncing, though they aren't quite sure how to accomplish that. Since this immediately becomes an issue with tickets saying things like, "scroll event crater server, Ugg need help! You said Blazorclub good. Ugg believe, Ugg wants reparations!" the team chooses a great answer to many problems for the wrong reasons:

gRPC

For those who aren't familiar, gRPC has a substantial amount of compression primarily courtesy of a rather excellent binary format developed by Google. Who needs the Quickie Mart, or indeed a sound markup delivery and view strategy when you can compress the shit out of the payload and ignore the problem. (Shhh, I hear you back there, no spoilers. What will happen when even that compression ceases to cut it, indeed). One might look at all this inductive-reasoning-as-development and ask themselves, "butwai?!" The reason is that the server-side story is just a way to buy time to flesh out the even more fundamentally broken browser-side story. To explain that, we need a little perspective.

The relationship between Microsoft and it's enterprise customers is your typical mutually abusive co-dependent relationship. Microsoft goes through phases of tacit disinterest, where it virtually ignores them. And rightly so, the enterprise customers tend to be weaksauce, mono-platform, mono-language types who come to work, collect a paycheck, and go home. They want to suckle on the teat of the vendor that enables them to get a plug and play experience for delivering their internal systems.

And that's fine. But it's also dull; it's the spouse that lets themselves go, it's the girlfriend in the distracted boyfriend meme. Those aren't the people who keep your platform relevant and competitive. For Microsoft, that crowd has always been the exploratory end of the developer community: alt.net, and more recently, the dotnet core community (StackOverflow 2020's most loved platform, for the haters). Alt.net seeded every competitive advantage the dotnet ecosystem has, and dotnet core capitalized on. Like DI? You're welcome. Are you enjoying MVC? Your gratitude is understood. Cool serializers, gRPC/protobuff, 1st class APIs, metadata-driven clients, code generation, micro ORMs, etc., etc., et al. Dear enterpriseur, you are fucking welcome.

Anyways, b2blazor. So, the front end (Blazor WebAssembly) story begins with the average enterprise FOMO. When enterprises get FOMO, they start to Karen/Kevin super hard, slinging around money, privilege, premiere support tickets, etc. until Microsoft, the distracted boyfriend, eventually turns back and says, "sorry babe, wut was that?" You know, shit like managers unironically looking at cloud reps and demanding to know if "you can handle our load!" Meanwhile, any actual engineer hides under the table facepalming and trying not to die from embarrassment.

Elasticsearch, from the bottom of my heart...

How can one ecosystem be so batshit crazy inconsistent?

Seemingly every agent does the same (e.g. filebeat vs journalbeat vs packetbeat)… yet there are subtle changes in configuration everywhere.

Plus YML. The most shitty markup language one can use and the cockslubbing durps used it fucking everywhere.

Makes fun to have complex stuff and requiring a python Jinja to JSON to YML converter to be able to write the complex stuff without having the fucking migraine to count like a stupid 4 year old whitespace with both hands...

To make it even more absurd: the ingest pipelines which contain a lot of regular expressions / grok and are thus very prone to quoting issues... Yes. Let's do this in YML too.

If you need to add an fucking manual section how to debug YML errors you should have realized what a fucking stupid idea it was, morons.

Now I have the joy of having a python script regex quoting the shit for a Jinja template which then generates JSON which then generates YML.

Why the JSON part?

Yeah... Because ECS and changes in the upstream YML files / GitHub.

To be able to run diffs in a sane way because in YML distinguishing thing is pretty much impossible, so JSON as an intermediary format solely for the purpose of converting upstream YML to JSON to diff it against modified JSON ingest pipelines downstream.

I fucking hate elasticsearch

JavaScript templating libraries are such a joke.

Either they:

- Totally change the syntax of HTML (Which? would make them? Not a templating engine? But their own shitty markup language?)
- Are already deprecated (And the new version isn't done yet!)
- Both

Hey everyone!

I'm on the hunt for new and exciting languages!

I'll state the ones I already know:
Python, Haskell, C(++), C#, Java, JavaScript, Ruby, Rust, Lua, about every kind of Basic, some branches of Lisp, BrainF**k, assembly, Octo (Chip-8) and GML(basically JavaScript).

I've also learnt some styling languages:
Html, CSS, Markup and Markdown.

Some misc languages too: Regex and a runny bit of the Wolfram Language.

Also I'm kind of limited to Windows, Linux and Android, as I do not own any Apple hardware except I have access to an old iPad, so are languages like Swift still good?

Thanks!

I saw this a few years ago. Really doubt if such a bug still exists.

So I used to visit some educational websites to get answers to school assignments. Very often it used to be under a paywall.Only that it wasn't. I once saw the markup of the website using inspect element and guess what? The whole answer was available in the markup and was hidden using CSS😂.

YAML files are one of the worst type I have ever seen until now. Fuck that shit. And fuck that indentation.

Back from the dead with more vaguely-obscure technical bullshit

Working on a chatbot for my BS-CS. Almost done with college, so the assignment is to make a bot that recommends you a CS career. Cool.

I get through making a joint personality and skill-interest quiz that gives you number grades on different spectra. So far, so good. But this project has to be done entirely in pandorabots' online editor. So no scripting. Zero scripting. 100% markup language. That means to even do math, you need to copy a standard library off GitHub.

I mean, that's fine and all, but the syntax is just atrocious, because everything in AIML is input->response. If you ask the bot "what is 5+5?" you must have it go:

- recognize pattern WHAT IS * + *
-> redirect -> XADD * XS *
-> do math -> recurse result
-> 10

uncomfy. Plus, variables can only be accessed through <get> and <set> tags. But mangeable.

So here's where the story becomes a rant.

In the standard docs, there's all these math functions, and they work. There's also logic.

And then there's this fucker
XIF [ * ] XS [ * ]
Which has no documentation and just doesn't work. No idea what the brackets mean. Tried putting in TRUE, tried putting in true math statements (5 XEQ 5), tried putting in recursion tags to trick it, tried everything. It just ignores it.
There is not a single comment, stackOverflow post, or youtube video that even acknowledges the existence of this thing.

So unless I want to convert the entire logic of my program into nested SWITCH statements with the <condition> tag, I'm just fucked.

The icing on the cake is, I go to tech support on Pandorabots to ask for help with this. What do they have except a chatbot to cheerfully tell me that no humans are around to help me right now?

gonna have to build an entire fuckin turing machine in markup tags to calculate whether x = 3

(:

Please, for the love of god, Stop creating markup languages, we have enought

Anyone happen to know any markup language for generating HTML? It should be simple to use, but more layout oriented than markdown

devRant Avatar builder should have T-shirts with curly brackets { } to compliment the ones with self-closing markup tag </>

Why do front end developers like to write their HTML/Component markup like this:

<div
id="test"
class="test"
>
Test
</div>

That lone > bracket absolutely irks me! Looks ugly! I prefer the Android style:

<div
id="test"
class="test">

<span>Test</span>
</div>

👌clean

for the love of markup

So at work, there is this class/model thing that's for storing translated strings. It also supports n-level nested macros, cascading lookup (e->d->c->b->a->blank), and I've added transforms too. The code is a bloody mess and very inefficient (legendary dev's code), but it's useful.

You call methods with a symbol representing one of the strings, and it does... whatever you ask, like return text, booleans, expand macros and submacros, pass in data to interpolate, etc.

But I just learned something today.
Its `.html` method... doesn't support html. In fact, calling it strips out all html, takes whatever is left, and attempts to convert that back into html. Because that makes so much sense. So, if you have an html string? Don't call html on it.

Also, macros use the same <angle brackets> as html tags, and macro expansion eats unknown macros, so... you can't mix html and macros, meaning you cannot inject values into your markup. That's a freaking joy to work around. (You end up writing a parser every time.)

So no, if you have an html string, you need to get the raw data out and handle it yourself. Don't reach for that shiny .html method; it'll just ruin your day.

It's the little things that make my day so terribly long.

Now u can see the difference.
I had to prove why HTML5+XHTML structure is better than non-semantic HTML structure.
Here is the difference.

Seen some screenshots of Notion. It's like airtable meets wiki, without dealing with markup.
It's very clean, and their use of templates is very intuitive, as is creating new templates.

Their offerings, even for new users, are also very generous.

Anyone used notion and if so, what did you think of it?

I wrote a tech book several years ago for O'Reilly, which itself was a dream come true. I'm still amazed I got that deal done, and the fact that my name was on a title with a unique animal on the cover is SUPER cool.

Back then, their publishing system was based on Git with their own markup language, and it was sort of a chore to use. Easy and straightforward, but laborious. I spent 3 entire days just (re)formatting my drafts to their code. They've upgraded it since, I see, based on the same fundamental versioning idea and still using Git. Neat!

I've also done tech writing for .NET Magazine, which used Word's change tracking, and penned articles for other publications using Google Docs, or even drafts in WordPress.

Have all of you run into interesting systems used by publishers to manage content?

Using an api: ok, this url (.../xml/endpoint) gives me an xml-document. Oh, and there is a node whose text contains html markup, interesting.
Using the same endpoint, but requesting json: yep, that's the same data, there even is this big html string and... why is this string in a json object wrapped inside "<![CDATA[...]]>"?

If i ever see a courtroom from the inside i'll plead insanity.

Every time I read the abbreviation for Cold Fusion Markup Language, my brain translates it to this:

CFML -> C?! F*ck my life!!

Any other IT company is like:

* Task -> Designer -> Markup coder -> Backend -> Finish

Our IT company:

Act I: "Art of setting up contact with idiots".
------
Items:
*Cave scripts (aka "typical task")

Designer: -- "DAFUQ?"
Customer: *gives another interpretation*
Designer: -- "Erm... really? White text on white background?"
Customer: -- "Make a decision by yourself. I was expecting much more independence from you. You are an expert after all."
Designer: -- "Well. I'm making decision by myself. The text will be placed *here* and will be gray-colored, because *bla-bla-bla*"
Customer: -- "I disagree."
Designer: *1 hour of silence later* -- "Well...k."

Act II: "Design meets ar(u)tist"
----

Items:
*Something, that was drawn by dumb kid while smashing his own head against desk. (PSD layout)
* Salt (to pour it on open wounds)

Designer: -- "I'm seeing this task *this way*"
Markup: -- "And how do u think i should get this done? Have you even seen what you made?? This is bullshit!"
Designer: -- "It's not bullshit! It's a sci-fi themed layout!"
Markup: -- "With gameplay elements and graphics from Alien Shooter??"
Designer: -- "Well, I don't care." *brings new edits and changes*
Markup: -- "????"
Designer: *smug face* -- "!!!"

Act III (7 days later, 9 hours till deadline): "Short story about boy, who was trying to hang himself, but instead fell out from window."
----

Items:
*Markup, smelling like it went through hell and back (x1)
* Markup coder with fried butt (x1)

Backend: -- "What. Is. THAT?"
Markup: -- "It's a work we should complete in 9 hours."
Backend: -- "WE?? I know u mean me, but that's a nightmare. What the f*ck were you doing all this time?"
Markup: -- "Well..." *finds out that he was only watching films and sleeping* "I was making this thing up..."
Backend: -- "You mean "f*cking" *this* thing "up"?"
Markup: -- "Not without it"

(*3 hours of edits and changes of color from white to white later*)
Backend: -- "Well, let's do this."
*Picks PHP and tries to bundle it up with MongoDB. After some time tries to rewrite everything to JS and starts shouting something like "F***CK" and looking for window to walk through. Figures out that he is on first floor. And that he is too lazy to go upstairs*

Act IV (3 days after deadline): "Pain and misery":
-----

Items:
*Something covered with insul(t)ating tape. (Final product)

Customer: -- "Really?"
Team: -- "Kinda."
Customer: -- "Well, thanks for your work anyway. It feels like it's going to disassemble right in my hands but it just works. Oh, also, you didnt made this in time, so your payment will be over9000 times lower. That's all"
Backend, on fluids: -- "Well...yeah..."
Markup: -- "Don't look at me like that. I really was doing my job."
Designer, with twitching eye: -- "Huh, I see. You worked so hard that we have nothing to eat now. Thanks for that."
Backend: ...

what if there was a psuedo-html/css markup language which could generate browser-specific pages?
eg. index.psuedohtml ->
index.ie8.html
index.firefox.html
index.chrome.html
then the page size would be reduced a lot. the server could use the user agent to see which to respond with. is this a good idea?

TIL, YAML was originally named Yet Another Markup Language and then renamed to YAML Ain’t Markup Language.
Nice.

what's your opinion on search engine marketeers? I think they're smurky and don't know how the internet works. I once had a 'SEO specialist' even telling me that my HTML wasn't correct because it didn't had the same markup as Google's documentation. For the record: it díd have all the microdata, but I used <ol> instead of <ul>. So yeah...

i'm making my python prof wanna strangle me again, it's 100% the same as the example output, for those wondering why i do this to him it's because he said he "favors speed over readability" so i'm doing as he asks

code:

print("\nThe cost of the item is "+str((float(input("Enter the retail value: "))/(1+float(input("enter the markup percentage (e.g. 0.9): ")))))+"\n\nEnd of Report")

Well it's nothing I wrote myself but I don't know why it exists.

I currently work on a reasonably big LaTeX (markup/typesetting) project.
For what ever reason someone had the glorious idea to build a Compiler in Java to compile the LaTeX sources to PDF, so far so good.
The problem is that
1. Most people working on that project either use an editor with its own compiling functionality or
2. use the shell script in the same fucking directory

Of course the Compiler is also slower than both of the above and tends to crash.

Well at least it's not my time which went into there.

My apologize to everyone I told that functional programming is declarative.

It's actually imperative. Thank you @AndSoWeCode for figuring that out. I spent the whole day thinking about it.

Lisp is imperative. It's just different way to define the exact data transformations, and that's quite imperative.

On the other hand, HTML, CSS, config files and markup languages are declarative.

But writing the imperative program which is configured with declarative configs seems like great idea. Consider Apache web server and others.

That moment when you really have a raging rant you want to post, and it fails to post...

Hulksad.gif

@dfox @trogus, made an issue about this, i hope it's not failing due to my chosen vocabulary, cause they really deserve it

The sub title says “programming language” yet the description says “markup language” get yo shit together google

Fuck accessibility.

No WAIT, before you call me an asshole hear me out.

So when you use CSS grid to create layouts you're supposed to not use the features it has (reordering items) too much, and instead keep the HTML structured the way it's supposed to be read.
When you add a picture of a cat you're supposed to put a alt="Brown cat sitting on a chair" there.
Also you should test for all kinds of sight disabilities and use high contrast colors.

All that for likely <1% of your users.

What would be the alternative? HTML is a markup language, and not supposed to be directly read by humans. Invest the time ONCE for screenreaders to understand CSS positioning and read content in a sensible order. Use image recognition to describe pictures (with selectable levels of detail). Let the browser modify colors on the fly for better readability.

Don't spend time and money to solve a problem 100000 Times that could be solved once.

Fuck accessibility.

Hello friends, please tell me what you think about haml? I just came across haml and I don't know, if its that usefull to faster write HTML markup.

Have to apply as a software dev again. Going to study now and the amount of jobs that are available is too damn low.
Anyway i hate this formal stuff. Why would I need to tell you why your company is so cool. Your IT probably sucks and you know that.

Company i applied for told me how they are planning to release a new project on friday.

... Decided for a different company

Most of us have scary stories about professors that think that they know about what they are talking about when it comes to teaching comp sci subjects. Shit is so backwards in most parts of the world with teachers showing outdated or completely pointless tech.

A friend called me the other day asking for classic ASP help because it was being used in his web class. Another was asking me about flipping c cgi web scripting. Wtf are schools teaching? Having the drive to LEARN actuall useful topics that are relevant on the market is hard enough as it is...shouldn't schools help at least a little bit? I was lucky, we were thaught Java, Python, cpp, js, sql, html5, css3, php, ruby and we had classes for node (for those interested) and asp.net mvc. Those were RELEVANT and good classes and while some outdated tech was good the rest is just bullshit. Specially since most teachers have 0 market value as develpers...but hey!! Wtf do I know! Of course my word is shit against all them doctorate and master degrees.

Gimme a break. School can be great. But a lot of the leadership there is toxic af for our industry. And while I appreciate the effort in me being thaught modern languages (and thaught is a hard word since I already knew how to program way before going to school) i still remember a teacher taking points away from an assignment for not using switch statements in Python...despite my explaining that there was no such thing (you can go around it by using a lil technique using functions, its pretty cool..pero no mames)
Or what about the time I mentioned to a fellow student how he could use markup for having more control with his windows forms while the very same teacher contradicted me saying that shit was not possible. Or the guy at the school in which I work teaching intro to programming using fucking vba...fk man if you are going the BASIC route at least teach them b4j or something fuuuuck.

I had good teachers, but they were always cast asside by dptmnt heads as if they knew better. I just hate pendejo teachers I really do.

Chinguen a su madre, bola de babosos.

Written so much markup and js that I may start speaking in markup xD
Is it too early to sleep now?

What was your first big project after learning a programming/markup language?

Everyone should at least know a bit of coding, especially markup languages. God dam looking at good GUIs when all of yours look like youve made it in paint is amazing. 😂😂

Product owner said don’t allow decimals in markup and we disabled decimals. At the 11th hour she said well what I wanted was for them to add decimals and we round up and save the rounded version. They initially type in 20.6 round up to 21 then calculate the percentage. And you refresh the page markup now says 21% not your original value. How is that even smart.

I’m working on a react codebase and company decided to add a new module.
Now im writing markup and css to ensure UX is smooth as designers thought of it.
Imagine my horror when I start to code and find out no matter what HTML tag i use, it’s been FUCKING OVERRIDDEN in the global stylesheet. AND STYLES HAVE BEEN OVERRIDDEN WITH !important

They’re also using Ant design as a component library. Guess what, default ant design classes have been overridden too. So i try to use ant design button or card, and bam, MAGICALLY SOME DESIGN FROM SOME SHITHOLE MODULE DECIDES TO FUCK WITH MY STYLES

On top of that, styles of parts of application has been written in SASS, some part of application uses bootstrap components some use third party components like tables and responsive grids to suit to their preferences. Some parts use handwritten css. Some parts use CSS IN JS and styled components. THE FUCK IS THIS GARBAGE!!!! THE FUCKING CODEBASE HAS A MIND OF ITS OWN!!!!!! YOU NAME A WAY TO ADD STYLES TO A COMPONENT, ITS THERE!!!
And the company’s management thought a “fractal” approach to maintain each individual view is “best” for SCALABILITY!!! HOW THE FUCK DID IT NOT CROSS YOUR DUMB MIND THAT FRACTAL APPROACH ALSO GUIDES TO HAVE ALL COMMON STUFF AT ONE PLACE!!!! THIS CODEBASE HAS DUPLICATE STYLES AND DUPLICATE CODE IN ALMOST EVERY MODULE!!!!

Not to mention every developer choosing to freely decide the way they should write their code without any guidelines.

HOW THE FUCK PEOPLE WRITE THEIR CODE WITHOUT THINKING ABOUT OTHER DEVS!!! SO BASICALLY I AM NOT ONLY CLEANING SOMEONE ELSE’S SHIT BUT ALSO TRY NOT TO SHIT IN THE PROCESS!! FML

2 days (actually about 4 hours) of battling a stupid CSS grid arrange that wouldn't behave.
Turns out 1fr (aka fill parent) works unless the child is another grid. In that case it forgets and just stretches the freaking parent as if there was no rule whatsoever.
If you have problems with CSS grids, consider trying flattening the markup...

I’m a full-stack Dev, but my job description restricts me to backend - app logic and databases - but the frontend Dev makes crappy markup templates and I have to keep closing unclosed tags and replacing ID css selectors with classes.

Unapologetic injection of PHP in markup.

<input type="text" <?php check_disabled(); ?>>

Seeing Angular markup after having used Aurelia for quite a while. Let the js framework battle begin.

I hate when there is more xml markup than actual data...

Different types of comments that I know in programming languages

C, C++, Java, C# , JavaScript, Golang
// whatever and /* whatever */

CSS
/* whatever */

Python, Ruby, BASH, Powershell, perl, TCL
# whatever

Almost all markup languages
<!-- whatever -->

I was amazed by how many languages i know along the way!

Spent a couple of hours trying to figure out why my flexbox css wasn't rendering as suspected. Finally discovered that the html tag I tried to apply it to didn't support display: flex;

Gah.

Confluence. Somehow they decided it was a good idea to remove the markup editor, and now your can only use the WYSIWYG editor. WYSIWYG editors suck. So I have to memorize a crap ton of keyboard shortcuts instead of just writing confluence markup which was apparently very similar to markdown. Argh

So I'm working on a snippet of JS to generate widgets for a custom data dashboard at the moment, in a project where I've been paired with a junior "developer" (he's more of a junior script monkey though), which is just plain painful...

Recently he wrote up a long message bitching about how my library API keeps changing, making it impossible for him to get any of his work done.. This particular message even made references to "writing his own widget library" and "stabbing me in the eye".

It's currently at version 0.1.0-ALPHA, just by the way. Major version 0 mother fucker.

Anyways, one of my colleagues stepped in the other day to try help him with the front-end stuff, which finally helped me get the feedback I was asking for. At which point we found out he's still currently working off a build I gave him 4 fucking weeks back.

Honestly though, I'd both love and hate to see him try make a library to do this: pull data from a non-standards company data API, parse said data from unnamed number arrays nested up to 4 levels deep, then morph that data into one of four different charts or one of five made up of custom markup.

All he has to do is create a UI to configure and present my widgets, but he can't even figure out how to integrate dependency management into his front-end project.

O.o

OMG. Can I stab him?? Pretty please?

HTML Writers Guidelines

When designing your web site you want to make the visiting experience as enjoyable as possible and at the same time make it so that if the site needs to be changed in any way, the changes are not too difficult to make. You want the look to be as appealing as possible for all browsers and also make the site accessible to users with disabilities. In order to accomplish all this there are some general guidelines when creating your HTML code.

1. The first thing that will really make your life easier is through the use of Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) - CSS is used to maintain the look of the document such as the fonts, margins and color. HTML directly on the page is not a good choice to handle these aspects because if say, the font color you are using for certain paragraphs needs to be changed from blue to red, you would have to go in and change each color tag manually. By using CSS you can designate the color for each of those paragraphs just once in the CSS file. That way if you have to change the font color from blue to red you make one change instead of the countless number of changes you might have to make, especially if your web site contains hundreds of pages. This is a big time saver and a must for all professionally designed web sites.

2. Don't use the FONT tag directly in your HTML code - This becomes a problem when using some cheap authoring tools that try to mimic what a web page should look like by using excessive FONT tags and nbsp characters. These tools end up creating web pages that are impossible to keep maintained. There is a program you can use, if you've created one of these disaster pages, called the HTML Tidy Program which you can actually download here . This will clean up your code as well as possible.

3. You want your web pages readable to people who have disabilities - People who surf the Internet depend on speech synthesizers or Braille readers to interpret the text on the page. If your HTML markup is sloppy or isn't contained in CSS the software these people use to read pages have a difficult time in interpreting these pages. You should also include descriptions for each image on your page. Also, don't use server side image maps. If you are using tables you should include a summary of the table's structure and also associate table data with the correct headers. This gives non visual browsers a chance to follow the page as they go from one cell to another. And finally, for forms, make sure you include labels for form fields.

By following just these three guidelines you give your visitors, especially disabled visitors the best chance of having an enjoyable visit to your site while at the same time making it so that if you have to make changes to your site, those changes can be made easily and quickly.

The biggest problem of markup

This is a bit of a hard one, but...
Does anyone know how to make a markup language (with browser styling)?

Anyone else sorta kinda getting tired of jsx? I mean React is definitely really wonderful and all and I was all aboard the jsx train but now having my “markup” and js (sometimes css too) mixed completely together is kinda getting annoying. Sometimes I look at it and think its a mangled mess.

Started looking into Vue and really dig the way they separate the layers at the code level. You can have templates in your html or use the really awesome SPC format. Don’t know a lot about Vue yet but the structuring definitely feels right.

post != rant #sorry

Just curious. How would one go about programming something like this? Do you guys think this machine just displays a fullscreen web app made in html/css or is there another approach with an actual programming language, not markup language that one can take? I heard it uses RFID technology to show cartridge levels, and records the time dispensed, alerts store owner when low, and brand dispensed alongside just dispensing drinks.

Drupal I'm seriously about to lose my shit.

I want to show one fucking image and one fucking title in my own custom markup.

Feels like I'm trying to create and launch a fucking nuclear weapon.

So last semester for my English class, I had to learn a "new skill" and write an essay [the final] about it. So naturally instead of taking the time to learn something new, I just slapped together a c# (in which I'd say I'm already fluent) calculator app with winforms.

When it came time to present my "new" skill to the class, everybody was overimpressed. Then at the end of my little presentation, one guy goes "Oh! Is that all done in HTML?".

Without giving it a thought, I instinctively replied "No, it's a programming language". He just looked so confused after that.

What do you think the best antergos desktop is? I'm looking for one that's relatively fast and lightweight but that looks nice.

Imagine an alternate universe where websites are actually just raw markup and style sheets.

People read this and imagine what the website look like.

Creating a webscraper using regex because there's no API available, knowing it will break the moment the source changes its markup.

Goddamnit, I've been rumaging around a CMS -generated site (not wordpress) for a friend in devtools.(to suggest improvements) I don't have much experience with CMS, but why is there so much fucking useless nested markup everywhere that has to go down the line. A simple paragraph has at least 6x nesting, a nav is "centered" by having a millionenty billionety divs on each side, there was even a span element for a single character inside a <p>.

What a fucking mess.

Can't figure out how in the hell to use nunjuck templates (or any for that matter) in metalsmith.

I feel like this is a general problem with oh so minimalistic modern projects. They look kinda cool but fail to do their main job correctly and in a flexible manner. This sort of flexible markup transformation just isn't possible to offload entirely to third party plugins and expect them to come up with some sort of compatibility themselves

Confluence WYSIWYG-editor shall burn in a thousand hells. This thing pretends to be smart, yet all its autoformatting achieves is to enrage me. I don't remember dropping so many f-bombs in such a short time frame.

I hoped to ease to the pain by writing markdown, yet I can only write markdown in a new insert markup window which does not even comprehend nested lists. And don't get me started that it wants to push its Confluence Wiki syntax first. Why does it need to reinvent the wheel?

Why can't I disable the WYSIWYG feel of it and just write plain old markdown?

Confluence, you are part of the problem!

I rather keep the documetnation inside the git repostory inside of md files. But no, confluence shall be our source of soon to be outdated documentation.

Sigh.

Guess what dumbass forgot to take into account markup for the database field and now everything is chopped off.
That's right. Me. :)
Lesson learned though.

I create nice, neat markup for IT to implement in JSP. They do it wrong and I get loads of defects. This happens constantly.

800% markup resellers saying “Pre-Loved” instead of “pre-owned” or “used” is THE peak corporate cringe. I can almost imagine that weak-bodied, arrogant capitalism-as-moralism zealot manager with man-tits ripping a fart and laughing to himself as he invented it. Then he went to twitter to defend elon from sexual assault allegations, and later took his wife and her boyfriend out for husband points.

Once a React aficionado, twice the frustration we endure,
In the realm of libraries, React's problems seem impure.
With Svelte's elegance and grace in our sight,
Let's vent about React, as day turns into night.

Boilerplate Overload, a monotonous affair,
Classes, constructors, lifecycle steps we declare.
In Svelte's simplicity, we find a breath of fresh air,
Just markup and magic – a coder's love affair.

Complex State Management, React's Achilles' heel,
Redux, Mobx, and their massive code appeal.
Svelte's state handling is a cinch, for real,
No more tangled webs of logic to conceal.

Unnecessary Re-Renders, React's performance woe,
Countless updates, like a never-ending show.
Svelte updates what's needed, like a pro,
Efficiency and speed, in its radiant glow.

Verbose Syntax, JSX's verbosity on display,
HTML in JavaScript, causing dismay.
Svelte's concise template syntax lights our way,
No more endless tags, just code that's here to stay.

Lack of Truly Reactive Behavior, React's hurdle high,
Hooks to wrangle, state to satisfy.
Svelte's reactivity, no need to question why,
It just works, oh my, oh my.

Ecosystem Complexity, React's sprawling sprawl,
Choices galore, making us bawl.
In Svelte's world, simplicity is the call,
A coherent ecosystem, it has it all.

Learning Curve, React's mountain to climb,
Classes, hooks, context, a hill of time.
Svelte's gentle curve feels sublime,
A smoother path to code, so fine.

Tooling Overkill, React's complex array,
Build tools, linters, configs in disarray.
Svelte's streamlined setup leads the way,
No more intergalactic code buffet.

Debugging Headaches, React's mysterious realm,
Complex state, intricate components overwhelm.
Svelte's predictable model, a soothing helm,
Debugging becomes a peaceful realm.

In the end, React, a complex labyrinth we explore,
Svelte's elegance and simplicity we adore.
If only React could learn, its problems to deplore,
A brighter future, for React we'd implore.

"Do you validate other people’s markup? Yes? You’re an asshole." - Jeff Croft

A genuine question

How can one achieve the following with ld+json schema, it really looks cool or is it done with something else?

Apparently Vue.js developers invented their own markup language which is neither HTML nor JavaScript, following their own special convoluted logic, using the most indirect approaches whenever possible and all the characters available on the keyboard {{#@.:;$-}}

Bad framework is bad...

Sooo, I'm having a lecture now on JML (Java Markup Language), but it seems so retarded. Is this actually used anywhere? And if so, why?

How many languages other than English do you know? I have at least C, C#, Java, PHP and Python, and then there are still the Markup languages etc... 😀

Very reassuring when your payment gateways XML examples have invalid markup.
I asked for XSD's and even they are invalid (containing missing type references)

Rendering a html page which if fully populated with code and markup....fire up dev server, navigate to route and dang.....page is empty and can't see WTF!!! is wrong

Is WML, the markup language obsolete??
It's covered in a Web engineering course I'm doing (quite in detail too) but a bit of research seems to show its not used at all anymore. I really don't get why were taught this shit sometimes!

JS: adding new dom nodes by adding html markup to the innerHTML property as string...
It's either dumb or a genius move.

Who else finds HTML/CSS to be just plain bad?

since that's what the web adopted, apparently no matter what you are developing if it involves a GUI then the design method almost always follows in the same path as the web.

that's not the issue though, the real problem is that the web adopted a very horrible way to create a UI, while HTML might have been fine for 90s-style websites I just feel like its a very lousy way to create a modern interactive webapp UI, its just very painfully obvious that it wasn't designed for that purpose. remind me again what HTML stands for? "HyperText Markup Language" yea that sounds about right. and CSS really doesn't help but double down on the flaws of HTML.

on a whim I can come up with a better method:
instead of the weird <body><footer> structure, why not have say "objects that flow in a 2D space", you define the parameters location and dimension of these objects, with something like javascript they interact with each other and just like div in HTML objects contain smaller objects.

this makes a lot more sense than the footer/body design or the obviously duck-taped attempts at controlling the style in CSS, like flow, and absolute-position.

am I alone in this?

Why can't Jira support standard markdown (as defined by Daring Fireball / John Gruber et al)?
Why does it need an own markup syntax and even fail with it. Using ticks ` for code once worked, now it lets the first tick stay, eats the first code character and highlights it as code. Just why?!

Yeah, okay. Day starting great.
On the phone with a company that can't understand HTML markup.

What’s your opinion on the StrongVPN service?

HTML IS A MARKUP LANGUAGE.

Please anyone here built a language before, markup, query or programming?

Hyper text markup language

Hitting every. single. fucking. dead end on my unstoppable march to introduce a nice feature.

I'm trying to embed interactive svg maps in a Wordpress page in such a way that the areas can be edited intuitively using Inkscape and all the page does is inline the xml markup, but also there's a JPG background embedded in the picture which Wordpress finds too big for markup (unsurprisingly) but which is a pain in the ass to reference externally.

When you write an extra markup just for mobile and after wasting hours you realise that you need to use the same ID on the elements of both versions on the same page thus ending up wasting all the effort.

I swear I felt like washing my brains with soap. Fuckity fuck !

Bf: what do you want to be?

She: html !

Bf: what?

She: when you be the start and end tags!