rant && dev && education

So I just interviewed this guy for admission into our bootcamp and because he has raised some red flags before, I asked him to just write a factorial function and he chose HTML to do it. I told him he can certainly try thinking that maybe he doesn't know that whatever you write inside script tag is actually JavaScript. He went on to do this. What bothers me is he have a computer science diploma.

Till now I have just heard of these people but always taught those are just marketing or some person who think that just because they here HTML with some other programming language. BUT THIS IS SOME NEXT LEVEL SHIT.

I recently joined the dark side - an agile consulting company (why and how is a long story). The first client I was assigned to was an international bank. The client wanted a web portal, that was at its core, just a massive web form for their users to perform data entry.

My company pitched and won the project even though they didn't have a single developer on their bench. The entire project team (including myself) was fast tracked through interviews and hired very rapidly so that they could staff the project (a fact I found out months later).

Although I had ~8 years of systems programming experience, my entire web development experience amounted to 12 weeks (a part time web dev course) just before I got hired.

I introduce to you, my team ...

Scrum Master. 12 years experience on paper.
Rote memorised the agile manifesto and scrum textbooks. He constantly went “We should do X instead of (practical thing) Y, because X is the agile way.” Easily pressured by the client to include ridiculous (real time chat in a form filling webpage), and sometimes near impossible features (undo at the keystroke level). He would just nag at the devs until someone mumbled ‘yes' just so that he would stfu and go away.

UX Designer. 3 years experience on paper ... as business analyst.
Zero professional experience in UX. Can’t use design tools like AI / photoshop. All he has is 10 weeks of UX bootcamp and a massive chip on his shoulder. The client wanted a web form, he designed a monstrosity that included several custom components that just HAD to be put in, because UX. When we asked for clarification the reply was a usually condescending “you guys don’t understand UX, just do <insert unhandled edge case>, this is intended."

Developer - PHD in his first job.
Invents programming puzzles to solve where there are none. The user story asked for a upload file button. He implemented a queue system that made use of custom metadata to detect file extensions, file size, and other attributes, so that he could determine which file to synchronously upload first.

Developer - Bootlicker. 5 years experience on paper.
He tried to ingratiate himself with the management from day 1. He also writes code I would fire interns and fail students for. His very first PR corrupted the database. The most recent one didn’t even compile.

Developer - Millennial fratboy with a business degree. 8 years experience on paper.
His entire knowledge of programming amounted to a single data structures class he took on Coursera. Claims that’s all he needs. His PRs was a single 4000+ line files, of which 3500+ failed the linter, had numerous bugs / console warnings / compile warnings, and implemented 60% of functionality requested in the user story. Also forget about getting his attention whenever one of the pretty secretaries walked by. He would leap out of his seat and waltz off to flirt.

Developer - Brooding loner. 6 years experience on paper.
His code works. It runs, in exponential time. Simply ignores you when you attempt to ask.

Developer - Agile fullstack developer extraordinaire. 8 years experience on paper.
Insists on doing the absolute minimum required in the user story, because more would be a waste. Does not believe in thinking ahead for edge conditions because it isn’t in the story. Every single PR is a hack around existing code. Sometimes he hacks a hack that was initially hacked by him. No one understands the components he maintains.

Developer - Team lead. 10 years of programming experience on paper.
Writes spaghetti code with if/else blocks nested 6 levels deep. When asked "how does this work ?”, the answer “I don’t know the details, but hey it works!”. Assigned as the team lead as he had the most experience on paper. Tries organise technical discussions during which he speaks absolute gibberish that either make no sense, or are complete misunderstandings of how our system actually works.

The last 2 guys are actually highly regarded by my company and are several pay grades above me. The rest were hired because my company was desperate to staff the project.

There are a 3 more guys I didn’t mention. The 4 of us literally carried the project. The codebase is ugly as hell because the others merge in each others crap. We have no unit tests, and It’s near impossible to start because of the quality of the code. But this junk works, and was deployed to production. Today is it actually hailed as a success story.

All these 3 guys have quit. 2 of them quit without a job. 1 found a new and better gig.

I’m still here because I need the money. There’s a tsunami of trash code waiting to fail in production, and I’m the only one left holding the fort.

Why am I surrounded by morons?
Why are these retards paid more than me?
Why are they so proud when all they produce is trash?
How on earth are they still hired?

And yeah, FML.

When you graduate from coding bootcamp

Please, do not "learn to code".
The industry is already filled with too many shitheads who think they're the next bill gates.
Most people have no business coding anything.
You might hear big tech screeching about "tech shortages" and that "we need more coders" but in reality, they're trying to flood the developer market with shit-tier coders so they can pay less wages, because they're too greedy to pay their workers a decent salary.

We don't need more coders.

You're not special.

Your bootcamp project looks like dogshit and 10,000 other people wrote the same thing only better.

Not laughing.

Not cursing.

Both for interviewing and being interviewed.

Some interviews could have been taken straight from a mexican telenovela.......

"Yeah, I worked for a year in the Walmart IT administration."

"Ok, what did you do?"

"Oh I had the high responsibility of taking care of swapping printer cartridges, programming the registers, stuff like that..."

"You apply for a senior database management role, you're aware of that?"

"Yeah. I took a bootcamp for 3 months in the evening after work. I'm up for the job and expect a payment of <lol, even having a stroke while writing a payment check that number will never happen>".

I made that up - but we had these cases... The story is just rewritten and mixed up for obvious reasons.

When I'm being interviewed, the same thing can happen by the way, too.

IMHO a interview is made not only for the company, but for me as an employee, too. I don't sugar coat it. I want to know what type of shit I'm getting into and how much I'm drowning in it.

Some "types" of interviewers react kinda funny when I start roasting them with questions...

For example, the authoritarian type usually reacts with disrespect. How dare u piss on my front lawn.... Kind of reaction. Which makes it hard not too laugh, because who wants to work for someone who throws a tamper tantrum during a interview? Even harder when the same guy promised you heaveb before (the flowery kind of bullshit, like everything's peaceful and fine and teams great and they have such a great leadership...)

Even worse is the patsy.

When you're sitting in an interview and the only answers you get are:

- Sorry, I don't know.
- I'm not allowed to ....
- Not in my area of expertise....

All just nice ways of saying: I will say nothing cause then I'd need to take some responsibility.

:)

The most Mexican telenovela stuff though in being interviewed is when I managed to divide a team of interviewers and it starts to become a "Judge Judy" or similar freaked out justice show...

A: "No, our team doesn't work that way".
B: "But you will in the short future, WE committed to it".
C: "Not that I'm aware of".

And me, an obvious sinner and person who enjoys entertainment and schadenfreude, just keeps adding kerosene to the fire.

"So, it seems like the team of A has its own rules which do not apply to B and C, do they also have greater funding?".

Oh it makes just fun to spur a good blood bath.

I'm freaking the fuck out.
After months of learning from bootcamp and on my own, after a month of no resumes replied to, after almost giving up I finally got a job opportunity in front-end web development.
The thing is, I have to pass their online test to verify my JavaScript-fu.
3 hours.
4 tasks.
And I feel like garbage who can't understand even the most basic algorithms.
By the power of Grayskull, I don't think I have the power...
Wish me luck.

Shortest friendship story-

I randomly posted on a group- "Hey can someone lend me Udemy Account if you have bought The Web Developer Bootcamp by Colt Steele, I am a student and really wish to do the course"

Next minute, I got a pm- "Give me your e-mail id pal, I will gift you the course"

This man in his 50s was so generous. We talked about tech, country and exchanged social handles.

By the way the course is really worth it.

Blue screened a Mac..

Installing MacOS on Virtualbox running on Windows 10 which is running on MBP Bootcamp partition.

Makes sense.

Manager: That last dev you hired is working out well. Where did you get him from?

Dev: *Looking at new hire’s resume which only contains a single bootcamp and nothing else*

Dev: He’s a rescue.

Udemy courses are targeted at ABSOLUTE beginners. It's excruciating to pull through and finish the course "just because". And some of these courses are jam-packed with 30-60 hours just for them to appear legit, but the reality is the value you get could be packed to 3-5 hours.

You're better off just searching for or watching for the things that you need on Google or YouTube.

You'll learn more when building the actual stuff. Yes, it's good to go for the documentation. Just scratch the "Getting Started" section and then start building what you want to build already. Don't read the entire documentation from cover to cover for the sake of reading it. You won't retain everything anyway. Use it as a reference. You'll gain wisdom through tons of real-world experience. You will pick things up along the way.

Don't watch those tutorials with non-native English speakers or those with a bad accent as well. Native speakers explain things really well and deliver the message with clarity because they do what they do best: It's their language.

Trust me, I got caught up in this inefficient style a handful of times. Don't waste your time.

I've been an IT Director for a medium sized company for 11 years...
2 years ago we decided to custom develop an app for online ordering through a third party... This company quoted $36k, I told the team that I think it will be $100k and here is a solution that will do 90% of the needs for $50 a month per location... boss says he doesn't care if it's 200k he wants 100% of what we want and the ability to change it to perfectly fit our needs.... FFW to present... $36k app built by committee of 8 people.. = $400k... and counting for maintenance and adjustments. We now use that $50 a month solution as well to cover another need that would be too costly to code into the original app SMH... and now myself and my team are learning to code to support it internally because.... why would you just hire a qualified person... anyhow, I'm a few months into a self paced online bootcamp and loving it. So ... bright side found! Rant over

An un-rant on Universities. (UC Irvine)

A lot of my friends and I are about to graduate 👨‍🎓 from UCI, with Computer Science degrees.

Most of them are complaining that they don't know any current frameworks, and all that we learned is outdated.
And that pretty much any bootcamper knows more tools that any of us do.

I totally disagree. I don't think it's the university's job to teach you tools (node, tencerflow, ...), rather, I think they made us into programming Swiss Army knifes. I can pick up any framework (I wanna be a web dev) real easy, and when shit breaks down, I can easily figure out the issue.

I think that's the major difference between Computer Scientists and Bootcampers/Programmers. We know "why", while they know "how".

What do you think? Is the current price of a CS degree worth it?

Wintertime is rough

TLDR: Skills and background or dedication for becoming a good programmer?

So I almost finished the bootcamp on my company, there is only 2 people. Me and another guy who is from math major. He wanted to learn programming so he applied for the job. He doen’t know sql, any backend language, and not even html or css when he joined. The only thing he knew is for looping and if condition logic. He survived 1 months or so by learning a lot here. C#, .net mvc, sql, decent css and html. I believe he worked hard by learning it by himself. But the company he can’t continue anymore. I doesn’t know the reason but probably because he is seen as not good enough. Sure he is kinda slow when adding some feature to our small project but we need to find how to do it by ourself mostly. Now I’m alone with another few weeks to continue

Me: Man this has been a killer week! Coding bootcamp has been better than I ever could have dreamed. Home life is good. Nothing could kill my good mood.

*opens up Facebook*
*Sees Microsoft is trying to pay billions of dollars to take control of Github*

...

FUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCKKKKKK

*Starts cloning repos like crazy*

Okay, this has to be said.

I am sick and tired of YouTube web devs who went to bootcamp, developed software for around 1 year, quit… then tell everybody what it’s like to be a “programmer.”

To top it off they become “developer advocates.”

Stop misleading people with your clickbait!

Never EVER buy a Mac as your primary PC if you're a developer.

Back in 2014 I bought an iMac because I already had an iPhone, and being able to code on xCode and also have a Windows partition seemed perfect. It wasn't.

Soon enough, I started encountering issues. My storage was randomly filling up, my computer started getting slow despite me having a small number of start apps and still a lot of storage available, it was all a mess.

So - I installed Windows 10 using Bootcamp to use it as my main OS. All was great until I wanted a new partition of Windows so I can test some things out without damaging my stuff. I try multiple methods, none of which work because my disk is not in the right partition format, and I don't want to change it because I'd have to format the whole thing.

Whatever - I give up, and try going back to my normal partition, disappointed. Guess fucking what?! My Windows Boot was damaged! Yes, I shit you not!

So - not only was this absolute piece of shit not able to add just one more fucking partition with an OS on it, but it BROKE my main partition, and now I'm trying to recover it.

I've said it once and I'll say it again: Never EVER get a Mac as your primary computer, unless you only work on Mac/iPhone apps.

For paying 1300$, I was expecting a seamless experience with little to no issues - yet all I got is a computer that's fucking broken from it's very core.

Fuck you, Apple.

On reccomendation of @chabad360 I made this its own rant.

I switched from marketing to CS (complete with a three year degree, no Bootcamp). I still went to interviews as you'd expect a marketing man to go; in a suit. Commence the weirdest interview.

$I: interviewer
$M: Me

I: "You're not the typical engineer. Can you talk to real engineers?"

M: "could you elaborate"

I:"you're dressed in a suit. That leads me to think you're a MS user. Do you think you could talk to real, ie. Linux using engineers?"

M: " well, I haven't used windows in about a year soo..

I: "Mac isn't Linux."

M: "I'm aware. I've switched to Ubuntu so I could use KVM-QEMU android emulator with GPU pass through to train Deep Convolution Networks on mobile devices. Also had to compile Google's internal build tool because it had bugs I had to fix so I could compile the APK."

I: "ah, Ubuntu eh? **Insert Smirk** How about a follow-up?"

M: "no, I'm switching to Gentoo this week and would like to talk to real engineers about that."

I thanked him for the coffee and left.

So I've been applying to jobs. I, purposely, have been putting down that I am female (since they all harp on diversity, I'd like to see if they even bother reaching out to me. Also anything to get my resume past the bots).

Spoiler alert - getting similar ratios to male counterparts, 100+ applications sent, maybe 4 phone interviews. No offers yet. Still made to do code challenges.

Well, I just found out where all that diversity hiring went to. Buddy of mine who works at a mid tier company said that they have a special program that onboards women into tech.

Specifically, women who have literally zero background in computers.

Teachers, social workers, etc. They get a week or so of some coding bootcamp and then get full time positions over more skilled applicants.

This infuriates me. I literally would be in a better situation to be hired had I not have had any technical background, taken this particular bootcamp and finally net the elusive entry level position I need.

And guess what? That move has antagonized the existing male employees who see that they have zero interest and zero competency instead of having an integrated workplace.

10/10 for incredible bullshit.

It astounds me that people will actually pay thousands of dollars to come to a bootcamp and just fuck around...

Like we will spend an hour going over materials and concept and when it comes time to apply it and build something the kid next to me never knows what's going on! And then always asks me how to do it.

I tried being positive about it and be like hey if I can explain it to him...then that means I really know it!

Fast forward a couple weeks and I'm ready to strangle the kid.

He will sit on his phone playing games the whole time the lesson is going. Then when the lesson is over, put his phone down and immediately ask me how to do it...

The fuck!? Maybe if you'd just listen you'd know wtf you're doing by now you useless vapid brainless twatwaffle!

I’m waiting visual studio 2015 for 3 hours and another one for this program devexpress because we need to learn it at my bootcamp

2017 doesn’t even took 30 min to finish up

I'm a junior ASP.NET programmer who just graduated and currently undergoing a trainee program bootcamp by my company. Got any Visual Studio tips or extensions I should use? (I know some of you hate vs but still)

I'm about to quit without a backup plan.

It's been almost 4 years since I started working as fullstack dev in my current company, also those are the same years of experience I have working in general. Right now I feel burnt out.

I feel I haven't progressed professionally at least in the last 2 and a half years... I feel stuck. Right now I don't feel like a dev, I feel like a dude that knows how to use a framework and only makes CRUDs.

I've lost the apetite for learning, also I feel very discouraged about the industry in general, watching media full of those tech-influencers and the apperently fakeness of the culture that companies show off only helps my disappointment and discourage about the industry in general. Also the unconscious action of comparing myself with others (and impostor syndrome) makes me feel less about myself.

I didn't go to college. During my last year of school I went to a Bootcamp and started learning by myself, I felt I choosed the correct path for me, I don't regret it, but makes me feel I entered at a young age (18) and unprepared to an industry I felt I knew at least a bit (I did two interships at 16).

Right now I can only think in taking a time for me and disconnect myself from everything, finish all the books I bought, continue doing excercise and therapy and stay connected with nature.

I know that most probably what I say about the industry is wrong but what I **feel** about it right now is not.

I know is better to search for better options and places to work than just quit, but I really feel it's gonna be the same, I know it's an unfounded fear and I'm a bit blinded about it.

I got a ASP.NET and SQL test today from my bootcamp

Wish me luck devranters

getting into dev work is such a shit show. thinking back 2 years ago I decided to switch career so went on bootcamp and starting looking for junior role.

as you know full well all jobs requires 5+ years when the tech has only been around 3. Anyhow, got a junior full stack role at a start up, all good , great pace (cos of startup) and wide range of tech to learn. one minute i am doing great , next day I am not good enough and got let go (WTF?) ,also whats up with some backend devs Jesus why wouldnt you let me put a " on aws because you are the backend dev what the fuck is wrong with your ego man?

fun story number 2: after being let go of my first role due to being good dev for one day and bad the next. I went for an intern role for really low paid. well fair enough I am here to learn right guys? nope, i have experience with the main tech from my last job and I managed the take home test and despite I told them i have more experience front end they criticise my backend code , despite i was able to tell them what I have done not so well and I have found a better solution AT THE INTERVIEW. still not good enough. I was really doubting myself If I am that shit at being an fucking intern with a stack I have experience in.

fast forward another job interview I landed my current role with fantastic culture, good line manager & tech lead. nice colleague and I am being treated like a prince with the work i put in. Why is this industry so fucked?

so, folks out there trying to get into this game. dont lose hope, you can do it , you just need to get fucked a bit to know whats good out there!

Before learning the css grid, I fell asleep so fast everytime at night. After the bootcamp

This is the 3rd day and I still can’t sleep on time, my brain keeps on banging my eyes to wake up and try all of the websites that have been piled up on my brainbfor 3 years

P.S. I start learning grid after using bootstrap layout the first time. Not gonna touch it again. It breaks my brain kinda bad

So I have attended AWS tech bootcamp yesterday and today.

One thing I notice is everyone either have Mac laptop or other laptops with Win10.

I'm probably the only one with Linux distro. 🤔

I feel special and at the same time, lonely.

Me: So you have no work experience, and majored in liberal arts, but you did go through a 6 months bootcamp, right?
Candidate: Yeah.
Me: sounds good, we will have to work together with you for a long while until you become independent, but I think you can definitely do this. What are you salary expectations?
Candidate: I'm thinking of 5000.
Me: Aight, thanks for your time! We'll send you more details later

Around here, 5000 (arbitrary made up number) is what you pay someone with around 3 years of experience at least. It's always these pampered fucks from rich countries that want to earn a shitton of money for the grand effort of going to a goddamn bootcamp for some months. That is their definition of effort and hard work, because it seems they've never once in their lives had any sort of hardship or struggle beyond crying that dad got them an Android instead of an iPhone. If you leave them alone they can't do jack shit because they've never worked in real, big projects, so you gotta invest a lot of time in them. Which is fine, everyone starts from somewhere. But what kinda balls do you have to demand a mid level salary when you have done basically nothing so far, and your knowledge is superficial at best?

I know that a lot of jobs and recruiters give bottom of the barrel shit, but I swear some candidates are insane. Unpopular rant I assume but I just needed to scream a bit.

My bootcamp instructor recommended the book, “ Eloquent JavaScript,” This is one of the 1st things I read. I’m not encouraged.

I will start contributing to open source from 2017. I have joined a Full Stack JavaScript developer boot camp for 3 months where we will do yoga, meditation, SunSetdance, Bhajan, Kirtan, study and work on social projects for children and NGO' s.

A 12-week coding Bootcamp won't turn you into a full stack web developer.

It's like a diet it takes time, it's not over in a few weeks even if you start intensive and really commit to it.

What's with all this micro-certification nonsense that seems to plague the industry? Does anyone actually give a shit that I may have passed some vendor's five day bootcamp?

Apparently I can now have a trophy (virtual, of course) if I complete X online MS courses.

Some of these courses seem to focus on stuff that has no use in day-to-day work.

And I have to actually pay because I learned your product and then pay to maintain the cert in some cases. WTF?!

I can see why the vendors do it---I like free money too---but why have we even let this become a thing.

It's like collecting baseball cards.

I despair of what our industry has become...I really do.

> Have nothing to do with programming
> Starts shitty coding bootcamp online, possibly for free
> Learns html/css/js course
> Builds to-do app (dont know how to deploy it with anything but github pages, but who cares)
> Takes a week to finish course
> Gets e-certificate and posts it on LinkedIn
> Adds web and front end dev as Professional Skill on LinkedIn
.
.
.
> Complains how bad the tech industry is for 'new entries and beginners'

I'm from New Zealand, and was working in the business side of things but really wanted to learn more tech. Saw a course in the states I really wanted to do, spoke to the admissions person and they said I can initially do a 4 week course then a 8 week bootcamp. Decided I would go but turns out I needed more "experience" when I spoke to one of the instructors.

Was super disappointed I had travelled all the way to America only to be denied a place, but the same instructor said if I did all the tasks she gave me I could get in. 2 years later I'm a full time dev and will never go back.

Really appreciate my instructors belief in me to go the next step, my life would be so different (and empty) if it weren't for her!

I’m currently learning development thru a remote bootcamp, I spend 80% of free time trying to build stuff and doing challenges. None of my friends understand or care, how do you combat loneliness/make friends when you’re a beginner? I’ve been to a few meetups but everyone’s way ahead of me. Bootcamp classmates are cool but none are in my city.

I've really struggled to make friends with people who code... and it's been absolutely frustrating. Does everyone in this industry have a god complex or something? Everyone I try to make friends with ends up being super narcissistic and self obsessed it's crazy. One of them wanted to be my mentor a while back, and we still talk occasionally, but after getting to know him I decided I didn't want to learn from him. It turns out he only mentors people to showboat his greatness and claim later that all their success is directly his doing. I decided I wasn't going to be one of those people and I only ever had 2 sessions from him. One of the best choices I've ever made. But I've found a lot of people who are programmers tend to be a lot like him. A lot of them I talk to will hit me up to brag about themselves or what they've done. But none ever ask what's been up with me or how my journey is doing? Is this just a normal thing in this industry or am I just meeting terrible people. It's made me appreciate my slightly dumber friends, cause at least they care about me and it shows.

More a rant than anything, but genuinely curious if anyone else has this issue... I'm starting my bootcamp soon and I'm hoping to make friends but I'm so concerned about this it's kind of giving me anxiety.

What’s the difference between a coder, programmer, developer and a software engineer? I see many people who attend a 2 month coding bootcamp where they learn html, css, javascript and put software engineer in their title

I really wonder if anybody has tried to install Windows via Bootcamp on a Hackintosh

So I'm coming out of one that has a focus on this stack (JS [JQuery after weeks of Vanilla JS drilling in our heads, React], Java, MySQL, Python [Django, Bottle], HTML/CSS, and a few web security concepts (XSS, SQL injections).

The whole course has been 4 months learning, 3 weeks working on a final project. Next week is the presentation, so I think I can safely comment on the course.

We moved fast, but that's to be expected. Lecture in the mornings, exercises in the afternoons, assignments due at the beginning of each week. Constantly working towards it and improving. I have been working pretty hard. We were given some help, but had to get a lot of answers online (based God StackOverflow), but that's part of it.

We touched on some concepts like inheritance in JS, Python and Java, OOP and to be open to concepts we don't know so we should be thirsty for that knowledge.

In my off time, I've begun texting myself Node and really trying to double down on React because it seems useful. I realized I was more drawn to the backend, but I was comfortable in front end as well. (Just don't ask me to design anything, my eye for aesthetics/CSS sorcery is terrible.)

The overall experience has been pretty mixed, but we were mostly unsatisfied. We weren't given then help we were promised. The explanations weren't exactly crystal clear, so we would have to teach ourselves and each other quite a bit. We worked together a lot. Some people really fell behind, some caught up, some flew ahead and thrived. (I'm somewhere between caught up and thrived, I recognize where I stand.)

I'm happy I did a bootcamp, they aren't miracle programs, but they at least kick you into place that you are learning and need to continue to learn. (Just kinda wish I had done a different one.)

Feel free to ask about anything concerning it!

Former classmate: Our alma mater is looking for alumni to participate in career day. Share what skills you need and the steps you took for your career path!

Me: Thanks for the invite. But I’m not a good role model for this.

FC: Why not? You’re a successful engineer!

Me: So I used my full tuition university scholarship on an art degree because I was too depressed after a long physical illness. Oh, and for some reason a lot of y’all assumed I went to a private uni when I went to the public uni. Then I went to graduate school immediately after and during a recession and ended up with tens of thousands in student debt. Then I did a lot of part time jobs before going to a shady coding bootcamp. I’m lucky to have encountered an advocate and a company willing to take me on as a junior dev. I’m pretty sure I was a diversity hire and I was definitely underpaid. I’m lucky to have moved on from there and to be thriving now. I’d tell the students to skip college (like I had considered) and go into a trade. And I’d also tell them a lot of life is luck and not just hard work.

FC: 😧

I love how CS universities teach stuff like every student there is going to create a programming language from scratch, but none of the real world stuff. Then people get surprised that bootcamp students get promotions twice as fast.

I worked with guy who was a teacher at bootcamp for 2 years already. He was fired after 2 months of juniorship at software house, because he couldn't do anything properly. I think it tells everything.

Graduating from a 12 week hacker bootcamp does not make you a "Sr." anything

Ask me in a few months after my bootcamp! I hope to have my first dev job! Scary and exciting at the same time 😳

Company has a severe lack of fresh blood.

"let's recruit everyone who has an IQ over room temperature and barely passes the mark".

Me protesting bloody murder cause I know that the idea is not just profoundly dumb, but frustration from high staff turnover takes a toll on *everyone*.

"nah can't be that bad".

Then the discussion started who could do monitoring and mentoring, so we can sort out the bad apples *quickly*.

Me reminding again that this is exactly what leads to a high staff turnover, as this is nothing else than "hire, hire - quickly fire".

Guess who won the award of being the mentor / monitor ....

*drum roll*

Come on, I know you would NEVER expect this.

Let me surprise you: M E.

Yeah. They chose the person that was absolutely against this idea...

Because that person is "most qualified for the task at hand and has the necessary qualifications".

Today was the first 4 h workshop with a new recruit.

The Lord has had zero mercy on me.

I started to mute myself after 30 minutes in regular intervals to just scream and curse the world.

How profound dumb a person can be amazes me.

Person has had a "very expensive 6 month boot camp course".

I was close asking if the boot camp course was in watching porn and wanking their brain cells out....

Git... Yeah he knew what he was doing...

Except that he messed up every commit by either not sticking to the companies format or - what I found funny the first 2 times, then not so much anymore - just writing a git commit message like a 15 year old teenage girl would write to their diary.

Programming. Oh yeah. He should be a programmer.

He had much Bootcamp.

Bootcamp expensive. Bootcamp good.

If someone is unable to iterate over an iterator... And instead starts creating an integer based array of a map's key name to then fetch the map value in an for loop based on the created key array.

Yeah. Bootcamp much good.

Creating DTOs...

It took an hour to write a DTO with him... Cause constructors are hard and it's even harder when you have to explain primitive datatypes in Java, null safety, constructors, NPEs, final, ...

Like really no experience at all.

The next week's will be amazing.

Either I get a valium drop or I'm gonna blow my head off, cause mentoring will drain the last bit of hope I had left in me.

Note that I do not blame the recruit (yeah he's dumb. But he has ZERO work experience, so it's not unexpected), I'm just too fed up with getting the poo crown despite being against the whole process.

I think the recruit could make it..........

But that I got the shittiest job ever is really haunting me.

I dunno how I survive the next weeks.

And this is just the first recruit... There will be more.

"We are a coding bootcamp."

in other words...

We are hipsters and we teach Node.js and React.

Best part of working in Company:
Getting learning sessions from Seniors and sharing design aspects and their pros and cons.
Had an awesome session on how to focus on making a code testable.
With hands on coding too.
Never expected to have such a great experience.

I took two years of CS then switched degrees. I've been working in technology since 2007 with those two years, a bunch of O'Reilly books, and some awesome mentors. I guess that is a dev bootcamp. We didn't have those in my day.

While I do have a degree, I don't recommend people to get one unless you are legally bound to get one; barber, hairdresser, doctor, lawyer.

I might create a coding course for people actually interested in learning how to program correctly (not Get Rich Quick Bootcamp style, not webapps, not magic Javascript incantations).

I have an idea on how to structure it but I worry it'll be too weird for most people to follow (starting from binary theory and then teaching machine code and then working upwards to C and beyond) explaining how a computer works along the way, showing the real errors with annotations explaining things, etc.

I've always wanted to teach in this format but I feel as though it's too.. idk, "useless" to most people? But I've never had a friend go through e.g. CodeAcademy and come out knowing how to actually make applications from start to finish without just hacking together random React components and hoping the frankenstein project works well enough.

The target demographic would be those either completely new to programming or just have a fundamental or web-centric preexisting knowledge, or maybe those who simply want to understand computers better.

Am I barking up a shitty tree?

I'm loving the bootcamp I'm in so far. I know I won't be a whiz kid once I'm done, but it gives me a great start for my career change! You'll only be as successful as the work you put into coding. Practice makes better as time goes on!

Imagine being the kind of officious prick who turns up to a bootcamp graduation evening and goes to each table in turn, condescending the graduate projects and telling them everything that they did wrong?
Imagine proceeding to try and 'break' one of the demonstration projects by 'injecting SQL into the url bar', and smashing the keyboard so fucking hard that the table collapses, beer spills over both demo laptops, and destroys them totally.

Imagine.

I am really stressed rn. I have terrible Imposter's Syndrome coupled with this being my 2nd year as a professional (bootcamp grad) and an extreme lack of insight and support from my company. WFH has only exacerbated it. Im on a 2-ish person team handling some ancient legacy code with no one ever willing to just throw me a fucking bone. My supe is actually on my team and makes up the "ish" part and has always told me to ask questions but when I do he gets pissed and reminds me of all the people who are working and super busy and dont have time to stop what they're doing and help me. Its my first job in tech and I just need to know if this is a consistent thing across the board bc im ready to fucking jump ship. My anxiety levels are through the roof and when I go over our backlog I look at every card and ask myself how tf Im going to grt it done bc Ive never seen any of it before. Initially I thought i landed a great workplace with complete autonomy but now I just dont know. My other teammate has a habit of being condescending, whether he realizes it or not and therefore I just feel like im out here alone trying to figure all this shit out. This sprung from a card ive been working on for 2+ months but cant resolve, finally I just came to the conclusion it was above what im currently capable of and he told me he's "disappointed Im just throwing in the towel" even though ive asked for help from senior devs. Idk what to do, he even told me there'd be cards I may hit a wall on when I first started but this just feels shitty. Ive had other things going on to including surviving a fucking hurricane, having a friend murdered, and having my dad die all within a few weeks time. I am absolutely stretched to my emotional limit, but I dont know if Im overreacting. Anyway, I just needed to vent to people who could understand, thanks for reading.

I just finished an IT bootcamp focusong on JS and React. I feel like i dont have enough skills and knowledge to land a junior role. Any advice?

- a nurse looking for a career change

Apple, next time you want to get me to upgrade my file system, please FUCKING TELL ME IT WONT LET ME INSTALL WINDOWS USING BOOTCAMP, 9 hours and I’ve only just found the file system that will let me run Adobe Cloud and Windows

I think I need to go to a bootcamp, so I can go through everything I need to learn: how to pair program, how to explain your code to someone else, how to prepare for a technical interview, etc.

Worst collab was in bootcamp. Group projects always suck because there’s always someone not pulling their weight. In my case it felt like everyone was terrible. My only regret was not putting a specific person on my “don’t want to collab” list when groups were being assigned. That probably would have saved me from so much stress.

One person in my group didn’t know how to start up the project…two weeks into us working on it. She even had the privilege of having an outside mentor. Mentor didn’t know how to work the project either—but let’s be real, that’s not the mentor’s responsibility. She forgot she needed to run npm install. We were six months into this bootcamp and she forgot one of the simplest commands.

Another person was just a follower and couldn’t think for himself. He was so faithful to another teammate’s choices and direction that I wondered if they were screwing each other. Other teammate could be absolutely (and destructively) wrong and he would defend her as “well she’s taking initiative and showing leadership.” It wasn’t leadership, it was bullying. They weren’t dating/screwing, but I did suspect he liked to be controlled/dominated by “strong”women.

The “strong” woman teammate is someone I suspect of being the spawn of Satan. You were only useful to her if you agreed with her or could help her. If you gave her any sort of pushback, she’d turn on you. I think she wanted me to be both her parent and her scapegoat for the sketchy things she wanted to do. She pulled a lot of bullshit and tried to blame everything on me. Seriously, she would invest a lot of time in stupid things like getting me to agree to use bitmoji for team pics; I just wanted to check with the bootcamp first because they might have an unwritten rule about using your real face for presentations so guests know who you are. I had to get the bootcamp staff to support me because she was out of control. She tried to say that I was sabotaging the group from day one. The staff explained to her how her story of me “sabotaging” the group doesn’t add up. She backed down a little but she’d still try to screw me over through the remainder of the project.

There was one dude who was alright. He was the keep your head down type. Spawn of Satan would be on his ass about being late to class and he’d just stare at her stoically. He was a husband and a dad so he was choosing how to expend his energy. I don’t like people being late either, but show some compassion and don’t snap at people.

If I saw these people again, I would not even pretend to be friends with most of them. Spawn of Satan especially: I’d take out my crucifix and send her back to hell.

It has been a while since my last tale. I think it was about me starting a bootcamp...

Well, a lot of things happen since that:
• I did the bootcamp: three months of code-sleep-code, but now I know a bunch of new stuff.
• I gained my passion/love for develop again.
• Made new friends.
• IDK how became the CTO of a startup (which failed, shame, but I did learn a lot of new stuff again. Plus it wont failed because of the tech side (damn business not doing his business part...)) for about 6 months.
• And next week I will start at a new job (yaaay, income again!): they give me a nice 2k laptop, work from home if I want, nice salary...

So, I think I am ok.

PD: Sry if something I write is wrong, english is not my native language.

Reinstalled my Mac using recovery mode.
Enabled FileVault through the setup.
Installed Bootcamp.
Now I can't log in to my Mac :/
Screamed like hell :|
Scratched my head for three hours.
Realized that the genius who invented FileVault imagined that no one would ever use bootcamp assistant and FileVault in the same time, cuz when you're encrypting the disk you won't be able to partition it.
I just got one question...
Why the fuu$@("/)@" didn't Apple mentioned that anywhere😐
Was it that much obvious?! :/

So I'm a junior in University for Computer Science and software engineering and while I'm a decent coder, I've noticed that I'm not as interested in the Coding aspect of it as others. I don't really think about doing projects of my own and tend to just focus on the schoolwork. I feel like I recognize patterns rather than fully understanding what's going on. I did extremely well in the Coding bootcamp I went to, better than most. But I'm worried that I'm not as into being an engineer as I think I should be. I love working with computers and the process of making something, but I'm always second guessing being an engineer.
Am I just worrying too much? Imposter syndrome?

I have never understood why there is so much animosity from seasoned devs in the community.

I see it in a lot of places. Stackoverflow, reddit, even devRant. In so many cases, an inexperienced dev will post to the web, only to be shot down by things like "this question is stupid" or "you all have it too easy and its apparent you never learned basic CS principles" or things of that nature. In a lot of cases, these are generally unhelpful replies and often teach new devs to be wary of seeking help.

Please help me to understand, why this is.

Is it because the community is angry at these devs trying to get a high paying job by going to a bootcamp and shortcutting the hard work it takes to understand core CS principles to become a decent developer? Then why not take a moment to provide resources or insight to these folks so they can learn to be better?

Is it because the community feels that devs from bootcamps are just watering down the pool of talent making our worth decrease? I feel this isnt really valid because seasoned, experienced architects will always be needed to build good software. And at that, why are we not ensuring that the next wave of developers is equipped to handle tasks like that?

There are a lot of good people in this community who want to help and make the net a better place for all developers (after all, many of us consider it home), but there's a lot more people out there with really shitty attitudes, and it frustrates the hell out of me that my juniors now equate arrogant, self-entitled responses and attitudes with "seasoned devs" and discourages them from even bothering to get involved in the community.

I'm not a dev, but I want to be. There's a lot of ways to become a developer from what I can tell, but the one I chose was a coding bootcamp.

I was accepted to Thinkful with an Income Share Agreement and a Living Stipend.

I'll be in the full time Engineering Immersion cohort starting this upcoming February.

So I just wanted to share my small accomplishment. Wish me luck, fam.

Best: Got my first dev job a month before I graduated my bootcamp. Was hired till rona layoffs started happening. Found another dev job 4 months later, and just received a promotion from said job just before going on holiday leave.

Worst: Being laid off for those 4 months. Sure unemployment + stimulus got me through financially, but mentally and emotionally I was starting to crack. I had thought I broke through the barrier with that first job and was going to be set. That layoff threw a wrench in my whole plan. In those 4 months unemployed I developed some imposter syndrome. Regardless, I plugged along with my side projects. One company was really impressed with one of them and was using a similar stack for an upcoming project, so luckily they ended up hiring me. Confidence restored.

When it's the first day of a QA Automation bootcamp and the other students think you should be the teacher.. =_=

I'm not going to lie, the surge of bootcamps really irks me. Not because I'm afraid of competition, or that I'm an elitest. Mainly because a lot of people who attend these bootcamps have no real interest in software engineering. I sometimes attend a meetup, and it's a beginner meetup. I try to help out. And a lot of people clearly have no patience for learning software engineering. I try to be encouraging, but sometimes I just want to be dick and tell them "Why the hell do you want to be a dev, if you're not interested in how computers work".

I'm an 100% myself taught developer. Granted I'm 38 and taught myself programming at 14. But it came out of an earnest desire and love for technology in general. So I never shyed away from learning? C and assembler? Bring it on. Theoretical computer science? I can get with that. For me I loved computer so much, that I was willing to learn about anything in the realm of computing.

This is what annoys me with the adult bootcamp crowd. I feel they're only willing to learn as long as it's easy. If something gets complicated or complex, then they check out. And I a lot of their questions is "tell me how to do this/that". But they don't know why they would do it.

To me it feels like they're trying to fast track themselves to a dev job. Yet you would think if they're trying to do this all professionally, they would be open to learning as much as possible, and not closing themselves off.

My semi-friend who runs the meetup is trying to start a bootcamp himself. So I try I severely hold my tongue when I attend those meetups. And I want to be supportive. I certainly don't want to be the reason why people are turned off by programming. But at the same time, I hate how people are abusing this profession because they think it's fast money and an easy way to earn 6 figure salaries.

Junior dev here. Finishing a boot camp, actively going through a few job application processes.
One of the companies has given me a tech assignment (for a Graduate Junior position, mind you) that was titled Full Stack Mid Level Challenge. It took me a week to build an app they asked and do analitycs and refactoring of the second part of the task (I only had late evenings free to dedicate to that), it was my first time doing back-end in Node (my boot camp teaches PHP) so I basically learned to do it while doing this challenge.
They asked testing and clean architecture.
I submitted the assignment (I thought I would die while doing it, exhausted, I think I was brain dead for a short perio of time, but I submitted it on time).
They got back to me and we had already have a tech interview with the Leads that had live coding at the end. Don't have feedback yet, really won't be surprised for whatever comes, it was literarly my first interview, treating it like a valuable learning experience.

But. This rant is not about this. Thsi is just to put you in my mood.

This is the !rant:

My classmate from the bootcamp is probably already hired, or will be one of these days. As a tech challenge she was asked to do FizzBuzz kata. I repeat, FizzBuzz bloody kata!
Now, I am very happy for this person, the situation is complicated and this job is extremely needed.

But, please, explain to me, HOW??? How is it possible that selection criterias vary that much?

End of rant. Thank you very much.

Yesterday, I received an email from the boot-camp that my contract was terminated because of HARASSMENT. They kicked me out from Slack and Github. They're treating me like a sh*t! I haven't done anything bad against them. In fact, they treated me poorly and unjustly. They didn't have an explanation about the HARASSMENT that I've done. Where is the justice about this?

What's up with recent Bootcamp grads putting themselves as "full stack engineer"s or "software engineer"s on LinkedIn when they haven't even had their first job yet? They build two projects and they think they are already engineers with zero relative job experience?

I don't get it.

Its good and practical but those who aim to fill gaps in the programming industry by trying to produce "programmers on demand" via a several month long bootcamp are complete idiots. Nobody can learn to develop a well structured application that's easy to maintain in a couple of months, either that is frontend or back end. We are trying to be engineers , not just solve problems.

hi devrant!

about six months ago i posted that i was accepted into and starting at a coding bootcamp. next week is the last week of curriculum for me before i can choose to be a teachers assistant or finish my capstone project and graduate!

some basic info about the course i took:

- 6 months (3 months web dev 2 months CS 1 month capstone project )
- starts by learning the MERN stack
- includes noSQL and SQL dbs
- transitions into C and then python for computer science
- includes basic security info
- lots and lots of algorithm practice
- lots of job readiness stuff (resume writing, linkedin, etc, but i havent done that yet)
- lots of portfolio-able projects throughout the schooling experience
- previous cohorts have something like 40% (after 1month) and 70% (after two) job placement rates (rough estimate)

let me know if anyone is curious about anything related and id be happy to answer what questions i can! :)

In the last module of my bootcamp(make all the jokes you want about bootcamp I have thick skin and a degree 😬) and just started applying for jobs. First job I applied for was a big company asking for 5+ years experience.

Might as well get used to rejection early 😂

Bootcamp fked up during partition and macos disk utility disk utility simply sucks.

Now i have unaccessible 44gb space on this system. Also TIL, online help related to issues on Mac is terrible. Lol even stackexchange has no replies.

Apparently it seems i have to reinstall whole OS to recover it..

Or is there any other way?..

Hi guys some advice would be appreciated.

I’m new here but have followed for a long time. I enjoy coding in my spare time, particularly web development but I am looking to make it my career.

Currently I work in mental health as a social worker, but ultimately the stress of the job and life in general has led to me being detained in a psychiatric hospital. So I’ve decided I need change.

I want to start a career I want to be in and that is as a developer. In terms of education, I started a degree in maths/cs a long time ago but stopped due to life events at the time. All the rest of my qualifications are around social work.

I’ve been doing my best to learn with Udemy and free code camp. Mainly looking at JavaScript. I also used to work in a charity where I did some (bad) php development and front end work.

Are there any self made developers out there who have any advice for me? I’m looking at doing a bootcamp but dunno if that will help at all.

Any help or advice would be really welcome. Cheers guys :)

I graduated from a bootcamp this February, moved to London and I was certain someone will hire me in the first two weeks. I have never been this wrong

Bootcamps get you up and running in coding quickly. If you are a programmer, companies are only interested on how quickly, error free and cheaply you produce marketable output. Bootcamps enable this.

More or less you are not more than a former assembly line worker putting parts on a car platform. Your value is not very high as you may be exchanged at any time at their will.

Nevertheless, you can earn money quickly. You trade in your youth and time which might be a dead end in the long-term. Trends go to machine learning, artificial intelligence. They will not need Bootcamp people and code workers.

It is better you set up Bootcamps and sell them versus absolving this. Like selling shovels during the gold rush, but not working in the mud of Alaska by yourself.

Your choice is: Making quick money, which fades anyway; or striving for the long-term future proof career.

C/S degrees from Technical Universities of reputation give to you the right direction under a strategic consideration. Companies which pay well, or freelancing with a solid acknowledged background, will always look for top graduates. People from Bootcamps are just OK for hammering assembly line coding. Even worse with SCRUM in one noisy room under enormous team server pressure controls, counting your lines of code per minute, with pale people all around. And groups of controllers never acknowledging nor trusting your work.

To acquire a serious degree, a Bachelor is nothing. Here, in INDIA, Bachelor now is what a former high school grade was. You must carry a diploma or Masters degree combined with internships at big companies with high brand recognition. This will require 4–6 years of your lifetime. You can support this financially by working part-time freelancing as making some projects front- or back-end web, data analysis and else.

Bootcamp people will lose in the long-term. They are the modern cannon fudder of software production.

It is your choice. Personally, I would never do Bootcamps. Quality and sustainability require time, deep studies and devotion.

My do-over would be going to a different coding bootcamp. I wonder if I could be making more money if I went to a better school.

The one I did go to was a big scam. They were more obsessed with teaching you to pretend rather than teaching how to code. They pulled the wool over everyone’s eyes—the students, the volunteers, the donors, the community. They were very cult-like with mantras like “trust the process.”

I spent 9 months there, but I felt I was a year behind. I am not misspeaking. I would have to relearn basic concepts the right way because they taught them half assed or not at all. I didn’t realize I was behind until I went to interviews and bombed. Seriously, I learned more in a 40 hour free library coding class than I learned in 9 months at the school. Most of the interviews I was getting were for unpaid internships. The school was telling me to go for mid level roles.

I found out recently that they’re breaking the law by operating without a license. In my state code schools do need a license. There are screenshots going around of a letter from the education department. They’re defense is “they’re not a school.” They’re still open. I think ppl should be warned away, but there’s only so much I can do. And I know ppl will give this place the benefit of the doubt before taking any student accusations seriously.

The biggest red flag is they want students to pay up to 70k and bind them to payments for 8 years. I say it’s a red flag because this place is operating as a nonprofit. Shouldn’t a nonprofit not be charging 3-4x more than competitors? They’re definitely not going to give you 70k worth of services.

They really just exploit the poor and POC by signing them up for debt and knowing those ppl would not be able to pay even with a 100k job. They have a very poor understanding about how poverty works.

It had MLM/pyramid scheme vibes when they started making recruiting students a game. They give out tickets to their annual fundraiser or promote you on social media if you refer the most students to them.

I’m one of the lucky ones who was studying coding before I started at the school. Also, job searching is mostly luck, so I was lucky at that too. But I still had to take a job that paid below market. I still wonder what would happen if I went someplace else.

I don’t even put this place on my resume or LinkedIn. Even without these problems, it’s not like anyone would have heard of the place anyway.

No this place isn’t Lambda or Holberton school.

I got accepted into the University of Washington BS Computer Science & Software Engineering program today! It's been a long road since starting ITT Tech 3 years agofor a BAS in SDEV, it closing on me, starting all the way over at community college, maintaining a 4.0, and now a bootcamper at Coding Dojo. Now only at least 2 more years to go! 😁🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃😩

Found this coding bootcamp advertisement while I was scrolling through Reddit:

“... we provide a better way to learn, free of tuition AND TEACHERS...”

- I learn my code in da streets, yo

Hello other devRanters! I have a question for all of the lady developers out there. Guys chime in too if you feel like it.

My girlfriend is a practicing doctor - and she loves what she's doing. But the other day, she casually mentioned something that really surprised me. "I kind of wish I learned to write code".
I'm kind of a horrible mentor, and I tend to figure things out on my own after hours and hours of digging around / experimenting.

I guess my question is, how did you guys get started as dev's, and what language? Was it a curiosity thing? Did you have a mentor? Self taught? I don't want to start off somewhere that risks discouraging her from pursuing it.
I'd like to provide her somewhere to start, just to see if it peaks her interest.

Any thoughts would be appreciated :)

Best code review experience was when I was mentor in a bootcamp and I had to review code from scholars, they were surprised by how their code could be written in less lines.

If anyone can do a 12-week bootcamp to become a ‘developer’, where are the 12-week bootcamps to become a lawyer or doctor? 🤔

Hey DevRant!

Not really a rant but a question:
I just got accepted into a coding bootcamp. Have any of you been involved in one? How was it? What would you do to make it a better experience throughout? Any advice or suggestions?

It's full time, six months long and I start in October and I want to make sure I make the most of the experience and absorb as much as possible.

I'm super happy that the course appears to be less just learning JavaScript and more involved in the Computer Science side of things, even including bits about C/C++, distributed systems, algorithms and data structures, software design/testing, cryptography, database management, and computer architecture. It also, of course, covers tons of resume work, interview practice, and networking.

Thanks!

The near future is in IOT and device programming...
In ten years most of us will have some kind of central control and more and more stuff connected to IOT, security will be even a bigger problem with all the Firmware bugs and 0-day exploits, and In 10 years IOT programmers will be like today's plumbers... You need one to make a custom build and you must pay an excessive hour salary.
My country is already getting Ready, I'm starting next month a 1-year course on automation and electronics programming paid by the government.

On the other hand, most users will use fewer computers and more tablets and phones, meaning jobs in the backend and device apps programming and less in general computer programs for the general public.

Programmers jobs will increase as general jobs decrease, as many jobs will be replaced by machines, but such machines still need to be programmed, meaning trading 10 low-level jobs for 1 or 2 programming jobs.

Unlike most job areas, self-tough and Bootcamp programmers will have a chance for a job, as experience and knowledge will be more important than a "canudo" (Portuguese expression for the paper you get at the end of a university course). And we will see an increase of Programmer jobs class, with lower paid jobs for less experienced and more well-paid jobs for engineers.

In 10 years the market will be flooded with programmers and computer engineers, as many countries are investing in computer classes in the first years of the kids, So most kids will know at least one programming language at the end of their school and more about computers than most people these days.

Most developers are morons, pt 2

In my last post on this topic, I discussed zombie developers, i.e. lower tier developers who enter the industry from a non-tech background usually through a bootcamp or get hired at a small (and usually desperate) company after doing a few github projects.

In this post I'll be talking about the middle 67% of developers. The average joes. The ones who know enough software to build apps, maybe even publish it and sometimes (not always) actually get users using their products, even for a brief moment of time.

For these people, software is genuinely interesting to them, but they don't really put in enough effort to get good at it. They don't put in enough late nights. They don't cancel enough leisure or social events. For most, they're only good enough to not get fired (job security) and that's as far as they want to take their careers.

And I suppose there's nothing wrong with that. Most people don't have a yearning to go above and beyond, so I'd expect most developers to follow this pattern as well.

So to you, I say thank you. Thank you for doing all the boring menial work no one cares to do. You might even get a pat on the back if you put in the extra effort.

During my bootcamp now I kept staring at and fiddling with a simple if statement exercise in JavaScript for good 5 minutes just to realize, that I was using Python syntax -_-"

Ok. I got it. I need a portfolio. That will speak for you. I’m working on it. I’m building great stuff. In the meantime. How the heck do I get a job as a junior web developer with no experience. I only have a coding bootcamp and a 4 month internship. All companies want people with experience. You won’t even have an interview without experience. So what’s the strategy then? Looking out for some words of wisdom from fellow devs.

First time ranter here;
I'm an aspiring developer, undergoing a bootcamp right now. But to pay the bills I recently started working in accounting in an insurance company, registering payments from ~10 years ago (my first office job, retail and restaurants were all my previous experience). The job is boring, I feel like nobody gives a shit about it, most of the time I have no idea what I'm doing, I don't get ANY feedback about my work... I just have to survive a few more months until I get a developer job or an internship, but good grief, it feels like such a distant future...

Tired of seeing people showing off their bootcamp certification on LinkedIn as if they had just climbed Mount Everest, and as if they were about to enter the most glamorous field of work one could imagine.
OK I went through a bootcamp myself but I certainly knew I was still a baby upon completion of the journey and still consider I have a veeery long way to go today after two years of dev work experience. Also I knew working as a developer probably wouldn’t be as awesome as these bootcamps make it out to be. In fact it’s everything but glamorous when you take into account the stress, the dynamics with coworkers, POs, PMs, shitty management, wacky clients, weird demands, deadlines etc.
Don’t get me wrong. I enjoy being a developer and have more or less been able handle the workload and expectations. But for goodness sake stop drilling into bootcampers’ heads that it’s gonna be amazing and that they’re doing incredible things. Congratulate them for their hard work and then wish them good luck because they’re going to need it. Bootcampers, stay humble. Be prepared for the worst while hoping for the best

Coding bootcamp I attended

Had an interview yesterday for a UI UX front end position with someone that had about 3 months of experience, all from a bootcamp. For a beginner it was ok, your run of the mill projects whose CSS framework you can tell at a glance. The guy finished the interview by pointing out that people from his bootcamp were getting offers of around X, where X is around 50% higher than engineers with 5+ years of experience usually get.

I'm not sure if he was trying to bullshit me, or if he seriously thought that was a standard salary. Or maybe he was some savant and I was too dumb to realize it.

Starting a bootcamp tomorrow. 😱
Let's do this! 😎

First day of my 3 month intensive Fullstack immersive bootcamp. Wish me luck!

Is it a good idea to go to a coding bootcamp and shell out thousands of dollars? How about a college? I know some devs think it’s best to self learn and pay no one. I’m currently trying to make a big decision and looking for pointers.

TDD is the bane of my existence right now. When I first put the cash down for this bootcamp I never thought writing tests would be the hardest part. The extra layer of abstract thinking is really slowing me down!

Even though my coding bootcamp was pretty shitty, I did make friends with the person seated next to me on the first day. We were assigned seats next to each other. We bonded over our thoughts of “we’re adults wtf is up with assigned seats” and “I would never sit at the back of the classroom.”

She really helped me out when I didn’t understand some things in class. I helped her with notes on days when she was absent.

Even though we don’t socialize much after bootcamp, I still consider her a great friend.

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Maybe I should quit my job already, drive for Uber for a while and self-study until I get into a coding bootcamp, and find a better job.

One thing I realized about my workplace: when you're given a new template to be used for an existing website project, do NOT use the included CSS files. Seems like it would be better to just manually change the looks of the website to make it similar to that template, lest you want some alignment stuff to break.

Plus, it seems that I don't even need to meet all the design requirements, because whenever I try to do that, clients tend to forget the design they originally gave and request for all these changes.

One more month... One more month and I'm off to bootcamp to properly learn.

So I recently finished a full stack web development bootcamp and I realized something at the end of it... I suck at and consequently hate Javascript... Any idea on how to change that? Whenever I see a task related to JS my first response is NOPE.

When can you call yourself a web developer? Is it when you start making money off of it, or can do a project successfully? I'm still in my bootcamp, but was just pondering thus with my other classmates. We were very proud that one day we'll call ourselves devs!

Learning Python first before learning SQL is a fucking joke...

its like learning to run before learning to walking...

my bootcamp kinda sucks

Looking for an online Bootcamp to learn front end development and eventually full-stack. I was looking at a combo of Free coding camp and Udemy Complete web developer Bootcamp. Any suggestions?

Because of a previous post today I looked up the cost for these bootcamps. Is really someone out there paying 15.000$ for something you could learn for free ? Why do people do this ?

I started my coding journey with JAVA ! I l grasped the basic concepts like LOOPS TYPECASTING ARRAYS etc. pretty well but failed to cope up with stacks , queues . So I switched to python and completed the Python Bootcamp from Udemy and now I am pretty confident in python . So should I try to learn Java again ?

A little more than a year ago I attended to this coding bootcamp where the leading instructor made us open up Vim and told a joke about "those guys who can't quit Vim". It still hurts, but it's getting better every time I get the chance to do the same with others.

Have I said this before? The Google - everything and the Facebook - everything... is SO FUCKED. Seriously... why would anyone ever want to work somewhere with weekend-bootcamp- hackathon quality user interface? You have to be an "expert" in their exact interface of the month just to give them money.

Feels good when your a month in a coding boot camp and not thinking of backing out.

Is looking up the answers a good way to learn?

I started with free code camp a while back and always just looked up the answers and reverse engineered them when running into trouble. If I didn’t get it I’d look up a few videos on the idea.

But recently I started at a boot camp and after I asked they greatly discouraged me from doing this but I don’t see an alternative. I could just spent hours trying to guess the right answer and maybe eventually get the right one, but then my head is full of wrong answers and it takes forever. It feels like reinventing the wheel every time. I’m scared when I get further on in the bootcamp I won’t be able to find the answers online and I’ll be directionless.

Is this just imposter syndrome or am I cheating? Everyone I’ve asked said looking up what to do is part of the job.

Best: use macOS
Worst: install WIN on Bootcamp

So i guess Zoom and other video conferencing applications are feeling the pressure! I am currently taking an online class for my bootcamp, and the audio and video are both so glitchy!

Hey guys, I have a big decision to make and wanted some advice before I did so. I got an email from a recruiter (who looked at my git repos) with viking code and was offered placement in their immersive program. The immersive progrAm is 12 weeks long and amounts to 1000 hours of training...the stack is something like javascript,angularjs,ruby, ect... finally the program is deferred tuition so I pay with a percentage of my salary.
The only issue is I was going to start school for a 2 year associates of applied science (programming specialist ) degree. If I do the bootcamp it would postpone school. So my decision comes down to doing the bootcamp and postponing school, or finish school then possibly see if there is an opening in 2 years for bootcamp. What do y'all think?

Well, after almost a year of doing self study and what not... I decided to enroll in a bootcamp. Partially to help keep me accountable, mostly to help with networking and making contacts in the industry around me. I'm really stoked for it in spite of skepticism. They do offer guaranteed job placement if you finish the course, which was a major selling point for me. I'm curious if anyone on here has attended one? Thoughts? Success stories? Horror stories? From the research I've done, seems like you get what you put into it.

Windows is a software form of cancer.

I just wanted to play Doom 2016 while having an MacBook 12 as my only computer. It didn't worked through Wine, so I decided to go for Bootcamp.

So i've installed windows 10, and after booting back to OSX, I found out that my Bluetooth doesn't work anymore.

I actually got a Mac just to run away from Windows and Windows-ness in all its forms. Speaking ideologically, I by mistake given it a chance to leak through the barriers I build especially to prevent it. Given this kind of chance, it leaked through and spilled over my gorgeous, cute, innocent MacOS, destroying it.

Windows is like aids. Software form of merciless alien pathogen that uses the tiniest kind of chance to leak and serves it's only purpose — destroying everything we call "good", everything we proud of, everything that's valuable to us.

Windows is worse than cancer. It's the software form of pure evil.

Apple really should post a link someplace for the latest Bootcamp drivers. Why is life so difficult?

So… I’m in full stack bootcamp and don’t know much tricks of the trade as of yet… but, has anyone ever tried using “Jupyter-notebook” while using a libgit in a-Shell for iOS to edit cloned repository files from their phone?… it seems possible but I question its efficiency.

WTF is happening to macbook speakers on bootcamp. Win10 is sucking all the good beats and bass from every sound wave that tries to find it's way out. and the volume is too fucking low.
Anyone here was able to find a fix?

I've been doing a bootcamp in my country, learned the basics with c#, did some small projects but nothing too impressive. I started also web I'm that bootcamp, learned the basics of html css and js.. then all this corona madness started and yes, we still have classes online but less times a week and it's way harder. I'm feeling a little lost with what to learn, how and scared I might never be able to get a job. Ps. First rant and it does feel better even tho no one will read the whole thing :p

I'd like to build my own, I've helped many friends complete them, not because the teaching was bad, but because I helped them apply for the bootcamp.

I enjoy teaching what I know and I didn't really learn how to program until my final few months of university anyway, so if these had existed prior to me going to university... I might have gone to one of those instead and saved me some money. Admittedly no degree, but I've never been asked to produce my degree and many people who graduated couldn't program anyway...

Tested the windows linux subsystem. Thought windows did something good by implementing a complete Linux bash. Then I recognized that they just piped it into the win kernel. Lol they broke it again XD

Next steps are removing windows, burn that m2 ssd in some gasoline, throw the ashes in a deep hole next to my old bootcamp 40GB HDD (Mac OS X) and finally setting up a new fresh and clean system which won't get in touch with any Windows forever.

#Linux4Life

Has anyone managed to install a Linux Distro over the Boot camp partition on a newer MacBook pro with touch bar? My old 2012 MBP had a tri-boot on it because it had Mint, Win10 and macOS living together in almost harmony. Now I have a 2017 MBP and I can't even get it to live boot from a USB (a type-C one at that! Because of the Nexus 5X I have lots of type-C accessories).

Today I talked to a recent full stack developer bootcamp graduate who decided to change careers when she was having a hard time finding a job as a UX designer.

I can't help but judge her by her website. It is beautifully made. The CSS transitions are clean, the details are fine and it had an amazing feel. However, when I took a peak at the console I found out it was made with a SquareSpace template.

With UX background and being a recent fullstack bootcamp graduate, why make it with SquareSpace? It just feels really off. With that background you should at least be able to make a static Gatsby React page and host it on Heroku or Github.

Am I overreacting?

I'm starting from today a bootcamp for improve my skills as developer.

Wish me luck, or time for the tasks...

I knew programming was for me, MUCH later in life.

I loved playing with computers growing up but it wasn't until college that I tried programming ... and failed...

At the college I was at the first class you took was a class about C. It was taught by someone who 'just gets it', read from a old dusty book about C, that assumes you already know C... programming concepts and a ton more. It was horrible. He read from the book, then gave you your assignment and off you went.

This was before the age when the internet had a lot of good data available on programming. And it didn't help that I was a terrible student. I wasn't mature enough, I had no attention span.

So I decide programming is not for me and i drop out of school and through some lucky events I went on to make a good career in the tech world in networking. Good income and working with good people and all that.

Then after age 40... I'm at a company who is acquired (approved by the Trump administration ... who said there would be lots of great jobs) and they laid most people off.

I wasn't too sad about the layoffs that we knew were comming, it was a good career but I was tiring on the network / tech support world. If you think tech debt is bad, try working in networking land where every protocols shortcomings are 40+ years in the making and they can't be fixed ... without another layer of 20 year old bad ideas... and there's just no way out.

It was also an area where at most companies even where those staff are valued, eventually they decide you're just 'maintenance'.

I had worked really closely with the developers at this company, and I found they got along with me, and I got along with them to the point that they asked some issues be assigned to me. I could spot patterns in bugs and provide engineering data they wanted (accurate / logical troubleshooting, clear documentation, no guessing, tell them "i don't know" when I really don't ... surprising how few people do that).

We had such a good relationship that the directors in my department couldn't get a hold of engineering resources when they wanted ... but engineering would always answer my "Bro, you're going to want to be ready for this one, here's the details..." calls.

I hadn't seen their code ever (it was closely guarded) ... but I felt like I 'knew' it.

But no matter how valuable I was to the engineering teams I was in support... not engineering and thus I was expendable / our department was seen / treated as a cost center.

So as layoff time drew near I knew I liked working with the engineering team and I wondered what to do and I thought maybe I'd take a shot at programming while I had time at work. I read a bunch on the internet and played with some JavaScript as it was super accessible and ... found a whole community that was a hell of a lot more helpful than in my college years and all sorts of info on the internet.

So I do a bunch of stuff online and I'm enjoying it, but I also want a classroom experience to get questions answered and etc.

Unfortunately, as far as in person options are it felt like me it was:

- Go back to college for years ---- un no I've got fam and kids.

- Bootcamps, who have pretty mixed (i'm being nice) reputations.

So layoff time comes, I was really fortunate to get a good severance so I've got time ... but not go back to college time.

So I sign up for the canned bootcamp at my local university.

I could go on for ages about how everyone who hates boot camps is wrong ... and right about them. But I'll skip that for now and say that ... I actually had a great time.

I (and the handful of capable folks in the class) found that while we weren't great students in the past ... we were suddenly super excited about going to class every day and having someone drop knowledge on us each day was ultra motivating.

After that I picked up my first job and it has been fun since then. I like fixing stuff, I like making it 'better' and easier to use (for me, coworkers, and the customer) and it's fun learning / trying new things all the time.

I finished a coding bootcamp, but I still feel like a total beginner. I was hand held throughout the whole god damn thing! Sure, it's my fault for not studying the way I was supposed to, BUT GOD DAMN!!! I mean it's so hard not to copy code if it's right in front of you.. Oh well, a learning experience nonetheless.. Going for the Odin Project now with a different approach! Fingers crossed

I feel bad for bootcampers. Their schools tell them to apply for a job even if they don’t have all the qualifications because they will learn on the job. That’s fine if you’re applying for an upgrade in the same career path. But when you’re changing careers, a lot of jobs don’t necessarily have time to invest in you like that.

I do have respect for those who DM me on Slack and ask if the job is open to new bootcamp grads. At least they are taking the initiative to ask and not sulking that they’re not good enough.

I tell them “this role requires experience in x. If you have that, then apply” because I don’t actually know they’re not qualified.

I was like them before. It’s hard to get the first job and sometimes it’s a lot of luck. But the first job will make getting the next one easier.

At least they’re not recruiters trying to convince me to pay them to fill the role.

I can't even concentrate anymore. I am dying to tell my boss that I'm quitting to go to a bootcamp. But I'm not quite sure if it's the right time. I have to be 100% first about my alternative source of income, which is ridesharing.

My first CS class is a basic introductory C++ course. Won't even be going into OOP.

So I want to use my own laptop for the course, but I have a Mac. Thought I could use Visual Studio for Mac for the class, but turns out Visual Studio for Mac is really only for Multiplatform development with C#. Ok, then, screw that. Just wasted 20GB and an evening installing that just to uninstall it.

I'm using JetBrain's CLion for now, but apparently we'll be doing some graphics work later this semester so I'm going to need to install Windows via Bootcamp and Visual Studio there... but my SSD is too small...

I currently have Windows/Bootcamp installed on a 1TB external hard disk but that is slow af. My SSD is only 250GB and I've already used half of it for various programs I need (Adobe crap plus Logic crap cuz I make videos and music).

My only option here is to buy a new SSD but only one manufacturer sells those (OWC), and a 1TB SSD is stupid expensive, $700 almost as much as I paid for this laptop used.

So, I guess I'm just kinda deciding right now whether upgrading storage is really worth it...

Blockchain .. now that I have enrolled for a blockchain developer bootcamp costing to me a fortune, its clear to me how hyped can normal data structures get.

Its like iphone of the world of technologies.

And seriously people are doing MS in blockchain technology... I mean its a clear example of how the education fraud rings can capitalize even on a shitty tech just to suck out the wallets... Damn

My best mentor was at my first tech job. I’m pretty sure he’s a big reason why I got the job. Not me specifically, but he advocated for hiring out of a bootcamp that represented minorities.

I was just out of bootcamp. I was very sure I was not prepared. No, this was imposter syndrome. As evidence, I was offered a lesser role than what I had interviewed for. I was pretty sure I was only hired because the company was trying to fill a diversity quota, they could get away with paying me less, and I would take training well.

He was assigned to be my mentor. He was very helpful with teaching me the team’s practices and overall tech practices. Mentoring is hard and he was great at it. He almost inspired me to mentor, but I know I’d be shit at it.

When I was job searching, he wrote my recommendation. He helped me in so many ways.

I'm in my 4th week of a coding bootcamp. I left last nights class in tears and ready to give up. We were barely introduced to JavaScript last week and this week we're on jQuery, not to mention, I'm supposed to have mastered HTML and CSS by now. I don't understand SO MUCH of this!!! Every YouTube, CodeAcademy, TeamTreehouse, etc. video is DIFFERENT!!! No time for this, I have to make a hangman game by Saturday!!!

So I need some advice... I've been applying for jobs as a web dev for a while now but not so much as a bite. I think a large part of this is a lack of formal education. Do you think it's worth attending a class just for the certificate? Maybe do a bootcamp? If you got hired while being self taught how did you do it?

Anyone playing Star Trek Online via Wine, PlayOnMac, CrossOver, or WineBottler? They yanked the official Mac installer in February and I refuse to allocate space for bootcamp or my Macbook Pro or a dual boot on my hackintosh. I got it working momentarily on crossover but something went wrong.

Damn you Cryptic Studios!

The only person I've met that went to a bootcamp was an ok dev. Didn' really know jack about anything besides simple crud applications though.

What's up guys any devs from San Diego? I'm currently looking for a job or projects to work on. I'm fresh out of code bootcamp at LEARN Academy. Any Ruby devs out there?

I was out of work for 6 months...I applied at a company that takes in devs and trains them. There was a test, then a personal interview, then a bootcamp process...it was hard. But I pulled through.

Did you go to a coding boot camp? Which one? Was it a success? In what ways specifically? Can we see your portfolio? Are you happy?

The texts appear a gazillion times better on the external monitor when I am running windows 10 on Bootcamp compared with when I am running MacOS.
Monitor settings (like resolution and size and connection) exactly same in both cases. 🤷🏻

I want to learn front-end and i have offers of two bootcamps.please tell me which is better one-month or frontend-masters.
Note: i don't know anything about front-end

I'm planning to star a bootcamp, BeduTech it's worthy? Or I should try Ironhack?

Thoughts on coding bootcamps...?

Any Lamda students here? Or any other bootcamp type school?

First time pithing about startup concept in startup bootcamp, 2 fucking dead air (fuck....)
but I'm able to finish my pitch in time.
(Feeling relief now)

So im about to finish a mean stack bootcamp in 2 weeks. Im working on my final project and its nothing too fancy im just doing a simple inventory app (i have future plans for it to bundle it into an entire suite for a specific subset of retail). So i take my live coding exam and fork it (simple app with crud finished) and im trying to add an edit feature that populates tge fields with the prior data. Spent the whole of yesterday working on it from 12a-midnight. Just this one feature to bring previous values into an edit page. Seems simple enough. But it wasnt working right. So im looking all over posted on SO even got a friend of mine thats been programming for 20 years to help me and we cant figure out why it thinks a variable is undefined when it clearly has a value dorectly before the save method fires. (Console.logged that shit)

At about midnight i realize its because i needed to write a router.put in the api because i was just using the regular save originally :/

Made some basic static sites in early 2010’s, started getting bootcamp ads frequently.

Eventually joined one & saw what I’ve been missing out on...actually tried in bootcamp and now I’m almost a real deal dev guy 👌🏿
...actually extremely happy but don’t wanna be that guy

depends,

the me who started learning at first felt proud that i gained skills all alone by watching tutorials, reading docs and making projects for fun. He would have said boot camps are for lazy and unmotivated people

the present me would say, i wish i could be spoon-fed everything i need in a bootcamp rather than spending hours on learning new tech

Any boot camps worth it to become market ready. Still seeking proper degree but I’d like to work during that time as well. Thoughts?

So I have a MEAN app that is super simple just basic CRUD operations.

Everything works fine. Decide to extend it by bringing values over into fields on an Edit page. More work than I thought it would be but got it working, just passed values through an array in the URL. Pretty simple. So then I click save and it's broken. _id is apparently now undefined. Oh I posted it on the Javascript chat on SO and got nothing, instead everyone is talking about porn folders, a tweet, a random picture that looks like either a woman doing oral to a guy or a guy reading a book, and now Obamacare. FFS just answer my damn question >.< So I post it on SO itself and still crickets there. Worst part is I know its something simple I just don't know what it is because I'm still new to programming in general only been a few months in a bootcamp just learning the basics of MEAN stack (which I do like a lot tbh)

Man SO is so frustrating.

Are their any code bootcamp sorta deals that are actually worth the time and money? I've heard a lot of mixed opinions on them

Just deleted my BootCamp Windows7 partition - theres no going back now :-)

I'm about to be a Web Developer. Our bootcamp is about to end tomorrow. More sleepless nights for me then.

While I'm absolutely enjoying my bootcamp so far. There has been at least 3 or so days of getting people to install and configure the stuff we are working with...

Which sometimes takes hours...

Which sucks because I'm the only one using Linux in my class so it always comes down to 2 situations...

1- I already had it installed

2- install it super fast

Which leaves me with hours of free time... which feels silly in a classroom setting... irritating even...

At least I have time for my own stuff I guess....