2010: PHP, CSS, Vanilla JS, and a LAMP Server.

Ah, the simple life.

2016: Node.js, React, Vue, Angular, AngularJS, Polymer, Sass, Less, Gulp, Bower, Grunt.

I can't handle this, I'm shifting domains to Machine Learning.

2017: Numpy, Scipy, TensorFlow, Theano, Keras, Torch, CNNs, RNNs, GANs and LOTS AND LOTS OF MATH!

Okay, okay. Calm down there fella.
JavaScript doesn't seem that complicated now, does it? 🙈

We must develop and test our code

...via VirtualBox...

...running Windows XP...

...using IE...

..with vanilla Javascript...

...help me...

A client asked me to do a website completely vanilla instead of using frameworks and libraries. Then asked why the quote is so much more. Is this a good analogy?

Using frameworks and libraries is like you going to the grocery store to buy eggs.

Making a website from scratch is like going into the wild to capture hens, building an enclosure, and caring for the hens at least until they lay eggs.

Client: Why did you use Vanilla JavaScript? Even my child doesn't eat vanilla.

Me: Uhh..., you realise we are not talking about ice-cream right?
Right?
RIGHT?

*Romantic candlelit dinner*

GF: "What are you thinking about, my love?"

Me: "The chocolate custard always seems to behave differently under stress than vanilla. It has a lower base viscosity, but a similar shear thickening. I was wondering whether anyone has ever made a database of all custard brands and flavors together with their viscosities"

My brain: *Oh fuck, that's not what I'm supposed to say during a romantic dinner*

GF: "Do you wanna check whether we can find a cheap second hand viscometer.... wait.... no.... you'd need a rheometer for that, right? Do you think we could build one ourselves?"

Me: *blinks in awe*

Even after 15 years, I'm still just puzzled, she really fucking is my soulmate

“Fullstack dev continues to unleash his terror.”

We were in a meeting the other day discussing how we can integrate our React component with other existing systems easily — other React apps, Ionic, Angular, Vue and vanilla HTML.

All of a sudden, he opens his mouth.

Fullstack dev: So the thing is... it’s like...ummm... (he always starts after with these words. Always) since Ionic and Vue are both “angular-based”. It shouldn’t be a problem.

Me: excuse me! What do you mean vue is “angular-based”? What’s vue gotta do with angular?

Fullstack dev: You need angular installed to run vue apps and you have data binding in vue and in angular.

Me: (fuck me dead) I don’t know what that means, but I know what the Rock is cookin’. (My exact words in the meeting)

They flew him in from India and they keep extending his stay. He’s been working on the project for 2+ years now.

More to come!

Hey, wanna hear a disappointing stack?

- WordPress
- jQuery
- vanilla inline CSS
- shitty random legacy PHP

Disclaimer:
The author is NOT responsible nor liable for any injuries, mental health issues, sanitary problems, asexuality, crippling depression, triggered by this rant nor liable for any damaged walls, hurt animals or deaths.

Watching a cookery program and it made me think it must be hard being a chef.

Then it made me think that being a web developer is a bit like cooking.

You have your ready meal equivalent with WordPress and Wix.

You have your cook at home kits with front-end frameworks like bootstrap and foundation.

You have your recipes and ingredients with package managers like npm and JavaScript modules.

Then you have your own home made cooking using vanilla js, CSS and HTML made to your own liking.

Just like being a good chef, being a good web developer is about knowing what ingredients and methods to include, but also what to leave out, to get the best result!

What a nice fucking tutorial.

Clicked an articles which says How to Implement X feature in Vanilla JavaScript.

They used a vanilla javascript library.

What a fucking idiot.

Intelligence and ability cannot be measured by education.

I have a client who asked a Master in Computer Science to develop a small system, for querying product title and their code. The guy used python, vanilla js, and... Txt file for the "database". Then my client asked me to integrated this in... WordPress.

This was in 2016. And idiot as I'm, I agreed and adapted his code to use php and a database.

April this year, my client said they are still using the python system to add new products all this time, in parallel. And wanted to update the WordPress with the data.

- No problem! - I said. Just send me the SQL file.

So the Master in CS sent me a SQL coded in ANSI. I asked for the SQL again, but with a more appropriate encoding. He took 1 month to reply back, and said it would be better if I get rid of the database and just use the txt file for querying.

This is outrageous.

I really hate people who are educated but completely useless.

Had a random dream last night where different JavaScript Frameworks were different flavour ice creams. No matter which one I tried I kept coming back to vanilla...

Brace for Ubuntu 17.10 release coming tomorrow. Bye bye my old friend Ubuntu Gnome and hello vanilla Ubuntu

PS: don't hate for liking Ubuntu, at least I'm on Linux, cmon 😄

Manager: Absolutely everything must be done with libraries, vanilla JS solutions are absolutely prohibited!

Manager: Why is our app so slow to load? Is there a library we can install to speed the loading up?

Manager: In ALL cases if someone uses vanilla javascript to do something instead of a library then that is a sign they are an ABSOLUTE BEGINNER!!!

Dev: …

PM: Guys, we have to upgrade Java 8

Me: hey check out all these cool functional programming stuff (lambdas)in Java 8.

PM: Sorry you can't do that. Our automated testing software isn't up to date to test Java 8. So you have to code it "vanilla"

Me: Erm, upgrade it?

PM: we didn't budget it for that.

Me: *thinks to me miself* brilliant

Why THE FUCK does the StackOverflow Community answer any JS related question with a solution containing jQuery - sometimes even without mentioning it?

Gosh - it's 2017 use Vanilla or at least a modern libary!

Coca-Cola now in Debian flavor! *__*

Master vanilla JavaScript.

Once you do, you'll be able to quickly learn how to use all the frameworks.

And no, jQuery is not vanilla JavaScript.

I was a midweight dev acting as a lead dev on the frontend development of a project. I had already built most of it, it was all vanilla JavaScript, had no jQuery, the code was simple, fast, and small. Then I went on holiday and the company put a senior lead on the project to carry out remaining work while I was away.

When I came back, there was a bug in the age gate page and I started to investigate. I then noticed that the asshole added jQuery to the code just to select the country and date of birth input fields. That idiot, a senior lead dev earning more than twice what I earned, didn’t know how to select some elements on a page! I nearly lost my temper when I saw the added bloat.

VueJS FTW!

Today I realised I've been a fucking idiot.
For the last few years I have familiarized myself with libraries like React, VueJS, Preact etc.

All while playing around on my own side projects but when it came to doing actual work (perhaps from a lack of confidence/working experience with them) I always reverted to vanilla js or jQuery because I convinced myself it wasn't the `right` use case or `the project was too simple or small`.

I WAS AN IDIOT.

The below screenshot is a prototype of a n invoicing tool I needed to write which uses VueJS and is implemented in 50 beautiful, clean, maintainable loc. Combined with TypeScript it is a dream - never did I think I would see the day where I could grab an inputs numerical value without prepending the variable with + so I don't end up concatenating them as strings.

If your like me and haven't started using some kind of data binding view framework stop procrastinating and just do it. I feel like I wasted a large chunk of my life clinging onto my old ways.

Be a real man and learn & understand the core JavaScript.

Hello everyone, this is my first time here so hi! I want to tell you all a story about my current situation.

At 18 while in the military I was able to get my first computer, it was a small hp pavilion laptop with windows 7. The system would crash constantly, even though I would only use it for googling stuff and using fb to talk to people. 5 months after I got it and continuously hated it decided to find out why and who could I blame (other than myself) for the system making me do the ctrl alt del dance all the time....

Found out that there are people called computer programmers that made software. Decided to give it a go since I had some free time most days. Started out with c++ because it was being recommended in some websites. Had many "oh deeeeer lord" moments. After not getting much traction I decided to move to Java which seemed like an easier step than C++. Had fun, but after some verbosity I decided to move into more dynamic lands. Tried JS and since at the time there was no Node and I was not very into the idea of building websites I decided to move into Python, Ruby, PHP and Perl and had a really great time using and learning all of them. I decided to get good in theoretical aspects of computer programming and since I had a knack for math I decided to get started with basic computer science concepts.

I absolutely frigging loved it. And not only that, but learning new things became an obsession, the kind that would make me go to bed at 02:40 am just to wake up at 04:00 or 06:00 because the military is like that. I really wanted to absorb as much as I could since I wanted to go to college for it and wanted to be prepared since I did not wanted to be a complete newb. Took Harvard CS50, Standford Programming 101 with Java, Rice's Python course and MIT's Python programming class. I had so much fun I don't regret it one bit.
By the time I got to college I had already made the jump to Linux and was an adept Arch user, Its not that it was superior or anything, but it really forced me to learn about Linux and working around a terminal and the internals of the system to get what I want. Now a days I settle for Fedora or Debian based systems since they are easier and time is money.

Uni was a breeze, math was fun and the programming classes seemed like glorified "Hello World" courses. I had fun, but not that much fun, most of my time was spent getting better at actual coding. I am no genius, nor my grades were super amazing(I did graduate with honors though) but I had fun, which never really happened in school before that.

While in school I took my first programming gig! It was in ASP.NET MVC, we were using C#, I got the job through a customer that I met at work, I was working in retail during the time and absolutely hated it. I remember being so excited with the gig, I got to meet other developers! Where I am from there aren't that many and most of them are very specialized, so they only get concerned with certain aspects of coding (e.g VBA developers.....) and that is until I met the lead dev. He was by far one of the biggest assholes I had ever met in my life. Absolutely nothing that I would do or say made hem not be a dick. My code was steady, but I would find bugs of incomplete stuff that he would do, whenever I would fix it he would belittle me and constantly remind me of my position as a "junior dev" in the company saying things as "if you have an issue with my code or standards tell me, but do not touch the code" which was funny considering that I would not be able to advance without those fixes. I quit not even 3 months latter because I could not stand the dick, neither 2 of the other developers since the immediately resigned after they got their own courage.

A year latter I was able to find myself another gig. I was hesitant for a moment since it was another remote position in which I had already had a crappy experience. Boy this one was bad. To be fair, this was on me since I had to get good with Lumen after only having some exposure to Laravel. Which I did mentioned repeatedly even though he did offer to train me in order to help him. Same thing, after a couple of weeks of being told how much I did not know I decided to get out.

That is 2 strikes.

So I waited a little while and took a position inside another company that was using vanilla PHP to build their services. Their system was solid though, the lead engineer remains a friend and I did learn a lot from him. I got contracted because they were looking for a Java developer. The salary was good. But when I got there they mentioned that they wanted a developer in Java...to build Android. At the time I was using Java with Spring so I though "well how hard can this be! I already use Android so the love for the system is there, lets do this!" And it was an intense, fun and really amazing experience.

-- To be continued.

Maybe it's time to stop jQuery being lazy and start using vanilla JS like a pro!

For my very first job interview, I joined a rather well known company (somewhere in the mid-ranges) as an intern-frontend developer. Everything was going okay-ish. I was asked some technical questions and I answered them to the best of my knowledge, and it was all good until he came to the javascript questions.

Interviewer: So, have you worked with any frontend frameworks?

Me: Yeah, I usually work with vanilla JS, but I've gotten into frameworks like Backbone and Ember.

Interviewer: I've never heard of those. Do you know AngularJS?

Me: I've dabbled aroudn with it, although I haven't gotten into it much. If you want me to use AngularJS, I can pick it up and get the ropes of it pretty quick.

Interviewer: So tell me.. what is AngularJS?

Me: It's a Javascript framework released by Google (explains what it is and how it differs from most popular JS frameworks, explains the components of Angular.. etc)

Interviewer: Well, you're wrong. It's an enhanced html for web-apps. ( or some bullshit he quoted off the front-page of the then angularjs.org homepage )

I finally ended my first side project ever. I challenged myself to write a Tetris game in vanilla JS (with the less possible lines of code), some algorithm was tougher than I expected (2d array hell) but I made it ! 500 lines of JS code, I feel I could refactor some stuffs now...

My tech stack progression:

Started with PHP without any frameworks, using a homegrown MVC architecture. Used to use `mysql_` functions everywhere. And only jquery + vanilla CSS in the front end.

Then moved to use PDO functions in PHP and Backbone.js + Less CSS in the front-end.

Then moved to Django in the back-end. Did not like Django very much as it is too opinionated and not flexible (although it's damn good for rapid development if you buy into their type of things).

Then moved to Flask + SQLAlchemy and using a home grown architecture. This is a sweet spot for me in terms of back end and stayed in this spot for the longest time.

Moved to Postgres from MySQL as I fell in love with Postgres.

Then learnt React+Redux. Liked it. Made most sense to front-end development this way. Moved front-end stack to React+Redux.

Learning Haskell and been working with Scotty and eyeing Servant for a while now.

Let's see where it goes from here.

PS: this is my personal journey through various tech stacks in various products at various companies I have worked. I'm not talking about moving a product through these many tech stacks. That doesn't make any sense.

Dev at some point of the Interview.
Me: ...and how good do you consider yourself with vanilla JavaScript.
Him: erm... I think I'm very Good with Javascript but to be honest, never heard of that Vanilla framework. There are so many libs/frameworks that it's hard to keep up.
Me: ...

AngularJS is dead. React is dead. Vue.js is dead. I guess you got to switch to the new awesome framework called Vanilla JS!

I fucking hate HTML forms! Especially representing bloody nested objects within them!

Fighting with html forms has taken at least 80% of my time over the past three features. Why can't I just do this via API? It would be soo much freaking simpler! ugh.

But today.
Today is not going to be a good day.
I not only get to expand a complicated vanilla form with with one nested object today, I get to expand it to include three nested objects. Normally this wouldn't be a problem because it's just moving elements around, but two of those nested objects need to be broken up and combined into three+ segments each. I have no idea how to even approach this.

ugh.

Windows vs Linux vs MacOS, Android vs iOS,
PHP vs .Net vs Java vs python vs whatever,
Angular vs React vs Elm vs vanilla ...

It's like Nintendo vs Sega,
Star Wars vs Star Trek,
Beatles vs Rolling Stones ...

It's all a bit childish, right?

The more depressed you get over the current state of software is how you know you made it.When you start making your own opinions and say"wow these people are full of shit"

Primary example, the web development overblown bullshit. Fuck me dude, you really don't need that full featured react, vue, angular framework to make sense of shit. You are going over the top for fucking ajax functionality and state management that you could do by yourself without needing to learn a full framework, by the time you finish learning react you probably would have been better served with standard vanilla af JS and server side rendering.

Our world is full of fads and many talented people that perpetrate them. Its fine, it is a the nature of the beast. But a lot...A LOT of software is very POORLY written. And adding levels of abstraction over a very broken paradigm (web in this case) does and will not make it better.

Basically I am fucking hating being a web developer and want to go back to a time in which we cared about how much memory consumption our applications made as well as not worrying about the fucking frontend having the ability to implement machine learning.

I want to run sublime.exe and being sure that it is a native application to my system and not using a fucking contained web browser to implement my fucking text editor. With 20mb of ram at most instead of 500mb WTF.

I knew I made it when I could read comments on Hacker news and reddit and say "this idiot is full of shit", I knew I made it when I would sigh heavily at the idea of having another project rather than having a fan girl attitude towards it.

I knew I made it when people writing about software development meant shit to me rather than the wonder of what the fuck they were talking about.

I knew I made it when getting laid was more important to me than fucking around with code.

pussy > code
Fuck you.

JavaScript frameworks compiling into vanilla JavaScript be like:

So I watched this video that tries to convince people, that the jQuery library isn't really best practice anymore and showed how you can achieve basic tasks with vanilla JS, aswell as some frameworks (Vue, React, Angualar) and how they handle interactions with the DOM.

It also talked about how nearly every JS question on SO has top answers using jQuery, and how that's a bad thing.

But what I found in the comment section of this video was pure horror: So-called "Developers" defending jQuery to the death. Of course there were some people who made some viable arguments (legacy code, quick & dirty projects), but the overwhelming majority were people making absurd claims and they seemed quit self-confident.

GOSH!

Want an example?
Look:

I come from PHP and have been using jQuery as a crutch for years. I've dabbled in Node and obviously writing some vanilla JS is unavoidable, but now I'm starting to use ES6 with Babel and VueJS and the more I dig in, the more I hate javascript. Everything is an object (null, array), there seems to be a few gotchas with math (including the one pictured), nothing is strongly typed but types are very important (for instance, you can't loop an object and an array using the same code), and there are a lot of inconsistencies/functions missing. ucwords for instance. Why doesn't that exist? typeof only returns object, but Array.isArray and Object.isObject work fine. I'm going to give typescript a go soon and cross my fingers.

I fucking hate all these JavaScript frameworks. You try to learn one and then there is another one that's rising up. While you wonder why a framework exists and what's the best use case there is a fresh off college grad who built a fucking app on it. How the fuck is it even possible? Did you study the framework? Did you understand how it works? Or did you just put together a bunch of tutorials and built the app. I feel people just want to churn apps out without bothering about understanding the framework. Ask them about design patterns... They know nothing about it. Ask them vanilla JavaScript questions.... They fumble easily. Ask them OOPs..... They look dumbfounded. WTF!!!

Or maybe I am just getting old. It's possible.

I'm the only one here that still uses jquery instead of some angular/react/vanilla/random JS frameworks?

So I've been using Antergos Linux as a way to ease myself into Arch.

Gnome apparently has moved to Wayland so I thought "Oh I don't need the Xorg window server anymore, let's just delete the Pacman package for that..."

Oh. Oh crap.

That was a mistake.
...Gnome is gone.

.... Guess I got my excuse to install vanilla Arch.

You won't believe me, but I can create a to-do list with vanilla Javascript

Any reason to use js framework than vanilla one? Is it the same reason as bootstrap and css?

GUYS I DID IT
AND I ONLY HAD TO LOOK AT THE ARCHWIKI FOR GRUB INSTALLATION
AM I COOL NOW
(going to install to my computer a little later, don't worry i'm not done here)

I recently ranted so much about languages but here it goes

JS we need to talk. BECAUSE YOU GOT FAT AND UGLY STUPID BITCH! Dumb piece of bloatware. What even is your problem? Depending on a library for strpad and then blow up like Steve jobs ego. Bastardized fuckfest. I used to like you bro and then you screw me over!
It's like you fuck my wife while I try to fix your car. Why can't you even be usefully on your own anymore? I'd be richer than bill gates if I get a dollar for every damn framework people pull from their asses. Are you writing this fuck while shitting so you can compare colors of your outcome?

Normalize the fucking base, don't add to the bukkakke! bitch is drowning already. Why is everyone jerking of to react and angular? When have YOU written something in vanilla the last time? Why even bother? Remove the core and hardcore every damn framework into the browsers. Guess that saves you 200kb. Oh wait I forgot that's about unminified jQuery.

Now I need to load about 2GB of dependencies, some creating code that puts code in my code to load code out of my code which was generated out of something that remotely resembles JS so every browser is able to execute my fancy shit. But hey, it's fast. And of course there are the fanboys. You are worse than apple fags. You sample your own jizz with your friends in a wine glass. there was a Time it was bad practice to mix logic and view. Now you made it mandatory. "Browser does the rendering" ofc you imbecile pile of fuck don't show me a damn preloader for 1 picture and 20 lines of text. Who fucked your brain so hard?

So react seems to be the cool kid now, then I tell someone I know angular it's like showing up in a pikachu onsie to a formal dinner with the queen.

I used to love you girl. I loved how we could dirty things together. Now you are like a pig. Please loose weight bby the sight of you disgusts me nowadays

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Time to rant about JavaScript tutorials.

If you don't know the 'jQuery basic arithmetic' joke, Google it now. It'll make you laugh, promised.

In that manner i just remembered a JavaScript tutorial my fiancee tried to follow when she did an internship at the company i work for last year.

She was tasked to create a temperature interface for our server rack, which she wanted to do via an Arduino and a webserver aswell as an SQL database.

The Arduino part wasn't really a problem, but since she had no experience with js she very closely clinged to a chart visualisation tutorial.

All of that worked very well, but beeing the person i am i looked at the code and found something off.

The chart library had no dependencies to external libraries or any local files for any of them. Though the tutorial used a jQuery import.

So why did it use jQuery?
Well...
To load the chart initialization after the page has loaded.

So they pulled the entirety of jQuery in just to do what fucking window.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded',function(){...}); could have done.

I wonder how many people who just want something to work did this shit. I hate it that so many tutorials do not adhere any kinds of standards, override behavior because they don't like it, even though it may have a very good reason to exist, pull entire libraries in for something vanilla <language> can do in 3 lines, etc.

Fuck.

Is it important to be proficient in vanilla JavaScript? Or Is jQuery enough?

I got tired of relearning JavaScript frameworks and instead tried to escape their clutches.

Most of my developer life I've spent relearning how to do the same thing in a different framework.

And every three or four years its the same story, figure out templating, figure out building, complain on github bugs etc.

I am trying to reduce framework fatigue by allowing you to think "can I make my application with just vanilla JavaScript". The advantage of vanilla JavaScript is it write once - do not need to rewrite.

Do YOU think I will abandon ship and end up having to use a framework again?

Sometimes I really fucking hate this company

The code is an absolute shitshow filled with static classes, untestable and duplicate code, on top of that my boss doesn’t like open source

Yeah so i’m not allowed to use a mapping library or something because “Uhhh like uhh we don’t have a contract with the company so who knows what’ll happen when the maintainers leave the project”
I understand his reasoning but it’s an absolutely retarded reasoning especially considering most of the .NET platform is open source nowadays

Writing a webapp from scratch now as well and I HAVE to use vanilla javascript and AngularJS 1.5 even though all the developers here told me they would like to upgrade to Typescript and Angular 2+ but it’s never gonna happen I suppose

Oh and he doesn’t like TDD and our only product is SAAS so imagine the amount of bugs being pushed simply because we don’t have time to write tests or even manually test, let alone refactor our horseshit codebase

AND i have to pay for gas myself which takes 200€ out of my bank account a month just for driving to work whilst I’m only getting a mediocre pay

Have a job interview tomorrow and another one on tuesday

Man, learning vanilla javascript as a beginner is so hard sometimes.

Why the hell does every single frontend job on Earth require expert knowledge of React, a fad JS library that will be forgotten in 5 years?

For extra credit: when was the sage advice of "keep content, appearance, and behavior separate" overruled in favor of "use JavaScript for literally everything"? Have I been in a coma for the past 3 years?

Look, I understand the appeal of separating code into repeatable components. I just don't understand why essentially the same thing can't be accomplished with vanilla JS, which is ten times easier to understand and doesn't require an entire website to be written in some make-believe offshoot of Ecmascript that will look like hieroglyphics a decade from now.

There are also seemingly no positions that offer people a platform to start applying React to real world scenarios. I've seen the "understand React in 5 minutes" articles. Wow, super cool, you used 30 lines of JavaScript to render a "Hello world" div. The possibilities are truly endless.

But seriously, how does this shit work? Where do I go to learn the mystical art of offloading every single one of a website's responsibilities to JavaScript? How do I use React to build an actual functioning website, and at what point will it save me time or increase my productivity instead of just pissing me off?

School thought me which "cutting-edge" technologies I should avoid at all costs:

"I want to fucking die" - tier:
- JQuery UI
- JSP
- JSF
- Vanilla PHP
- Java 5 and earlier
- Java and Rest
- Old Eclipse

"Mastering the art of headbanging" - tier:
- JPA
- JQuery

You may argue that some of them are not as bad as I think of them but the I was introduced to them made me despise them. We were never introduced to the documentations. Only to the sheets our teacher prepared and I think he completely pissed the point of some of them.

Rest example:
/resource/{resource_id}/action/{action_id}/username/{username}/password/{password}

Dear people who create frameworks and libraries,

Please don't advertise your stuff as 'super easy to use', 'incredibly lightweight', 'no configuration needed', 'seamless integration' and shit like this. We all know it's a big fat fucking lie. Just be honest and write 'it supposed to be all-purpose but won't solve your problem', 'a huge fucking chaotic mess', 'slow as shit', 'will eat up all your resources', 'might be good but we've lost the documentation' or 'actually worse than vanilla'. If you'd do this, the world would be a better place.

Thanks,

Theres a debate in my company about whether or not to be using RxSwift on iOS apps. I'm not 100% convinced. Today we had two submissions for a coding challenge come in. One uses nearly all the same Rx modules this company does, one was vanilla Swift.

Just by chance noticed the vanilla app writer contributed ~5k lines of code to the challenge overall. Including libraries, the Rx one contributed ~45k.

That to me is just bat shit crazy. It would want to be the most amazing, time saving, bug reducing thing the world has ever seen to justify that volume of code.

I love to write vanilla JavaScript questions, hand them to full stack devs during and interview and watch them struggle trying to explain what it’s doing. 😈

So I left this company I was working for for about 6 years and then eventually came back earlier this year. It was basically 2 backend devs, 2 frontend, and a designer, with me being one of the frontend devs, and the other operating as the owner/alpha of the group. And our coding styles couldn’t have been more different. I wrote code with purpose that could scale, while he wrote garbage that I affectionally labelled "brute force code"; meaning it eventually got the job done, but was always a complete nightmare to work with. Think the windiest piece of shit you’ve ever seen and then times it by 10. Edit the simplest thing at your peril. And if you think you fixed something, all you’ve ever really done is create another 10 problems. And because the code was such shit, it relied on certain things to be broken in order for other things to work. Anyway, you get the drift.

In the beginning we used jQuery and so we just continued to use it throughout the years. But then when I finally left I realized we were operating in a bit of a bubble, where we didn’t really care much to ever try anything else, and mostly because we were arrogant. But eventually my boss started to notice the trend of moving away from jQuery, so he converted everything to vanilla JavaScript. Thing is, he hadn’t learned ES6 yet or any of the other tools that came along with it. And so it was a mess, and I was quite shocked at how many lengths he’d gone to create the full conversion. Granted, it was faster. But overall, still a nightmare to work with, as the files were still thousands of lines long. And when I dug deeper, I realized that he’d started to pluck things out of the DOM manually on-demand. And so it dawned on me: he’d been looking at sites built with React and other dif-engines, and then instead of just using one, he decided to reinvent the wheel. And the funny thing is, he thought it was just a matter of always replacing the entire HTML for whatever was needed. And so he thought what he was doing was somehow clever. And why not? He’s a badass mathematician who created an empire with jQuery. And so he obviously didn’t need input from anyone, and especially not from the shitty devs over there at Facebook. Anyway, while I was gone I learned quite a bit of React, and so it was just comical to me when I came back and saw this. Because it would have been a million times more efficient had he just used the proper tool. In short, he’d re-written the entire codebase for two full years and then ended up with another round of brute-force garbage.

So that’s my story. The lesson is, when you work for someone who’s a dumbass piece of shit, sometimes he’ll be so stupid the only recourse is uncontrollable laughter. I became a digital nomad somewhere in between and fucked off to Asia where I barely worked for 2 years. And I’d definitely recommend the same for anyone else with an asshole boss where the work is unfulfilling. Because it doesn’t matter what your job is when you’re living like a millionaire in Asia working 15 hours a week.

Having a big legacy project written in good ol' vanilla PHP 5.4, running not in a server but in a desktop PC powered by a Celeron CPU.

Turns out that old buddy serves the tools everyone uses to work.

So I always start learning JS frameworks and end up getting confused by their syntax among other things. Do you guys know of any good websites to learn vanilla JS? My problem is that I probably don't know enough of vanilla and end up getting flustered.

100% random on this one BUUUUUUUUUUUUUT...

I currently have a minecraft server up and running but everyone I work with seems to have left it and I seem to be the only one on now...

If anyone is interested in joining the IP is minecraft.lxmcf.com and it's a vanilla 1.14.1 server with a few datapacks :-3

(PS it's only a 2GB server so please be gentle)

Edit: should also note it's the java edition

I'm so sick of being forced to use CSS frameworks at work. Every time I see one of those HTML elements with 87 terribly-named CSS classes, I want to scream and break something

What's wrong with Vanilla CSS? Why is it so unpopular to just stick with plain CSS, I feel like I'm infinitely more productive when I can just write out some short CSS than trying to wrangle the dumbass CSS framework to do what I want it to do. Even things like Vuetify make me lose my mind with the stupid shit you have to do to get it to behave how you want it

Also, Material Design is ugly as hell to me

Angular is still a pile of steaming donkey shit in 2023 and whoever thinks the opposite is either a damn js hipster (you know, those types that put js in everything they do and that run like a fly on a lot of turds form one js framework to the next saying "hey you tried this cool framework, this will solve everything" everytime), or you don't understand anything about software developement.

I am a 14 year developer so don't even try to tell me you don't understand this so you complain.
I build every fucking thing imaginable. from firmware interfaces for high level languaces from C++, to RFID low level reading code, to full blown business level web apps (yes, unluckily even with js, and yes, even with Angular up to Angular15, Vue, React etc etc), barcode scanning and windows ce embedded systems, every flavour of sql and documental db, vectorial db code, tech assistance and help desk on every OS, every kind of .NET/C# flavour (Xamarin, CE, WPF, Net framework, net core, .NET 5-8 etc etc) and many more

Everytime, since I've put my hands on angularJs, up from angular 2, angular 8, and now angular 15 (the only 3 version I've touched) I'm always baffled on how bad and stupid that dumpster fire shit excuse of a framework is.

They added observables everywhere to look cool and it's not necessary.
They care about making it look "hey we use observables, we are coo, up to date and reactive!!11!!1!" and they can't even fix their shit with the change detection mechanism, a notorious shitty patchwork of bugs since earlier angular version.

They literally built a whole ecosystem of shitty hacks around it to make it work and it's 100x times complex than anything else comparable around. except maybe for vanilla js (fucking js).

I don't event want todig in in the shit pool that is their whole ecosystem of tooling (webpack, npm, ng-something, angular.json, package.json), they are just too ridiculous to even be mentioned.

Countless time I dwelled the humongous mazes of those unstable, unrealiable shitty files/tools that give more troubles than those that solve.

I am here again, building the nth business critical web portal in angular 16 (latest sack of purtrid shit they put out) and like Pink Floyd says "What we found, same old fears".
Nothing changed, it's the same unintelligible product of the mind of a total dumbass.

Fuck off js, I will not find peace until Brendan Eich dies of some agonizing illness or by my hands

I don't write many rants but this, I've been keeping it inside my chest for too long.

I fucking hate js and I want to open the head of js creator like the doom marine on berserk

Tried to use vanilla JS, 2 hours into it and after googling stuff : Fuck it, I'll use JQUERY

Never know why you need to add vanilla to make vanilla. Oh wait, it's just crappy variable naming.

Why do people mix JS vanilla with framework syntax? That's horrible.

Why do people use jQuery anyways? There's no need at all anymore. It is just dumb JS for dumb devs.

Did that trigger you? - well....

Oh look, an ice cream with white chocolate and Java vanilla xD

Can we please eliminate React?
I was interviewing lately and the lady asked if I knew react, I said no and I don't want to. She then asked what the hell I use for front end... As if react is the only thing you can use... Ehm hello we still have vanilla JS and jQuery in the house. Which are better, faster and easier to use for like +90% of all Web projects out there...

The mess... Gotta clean the trash off of it. I don't mind it being disorganized, but the fucking trash. (also, vanilla woods💯)

I defied my HelpDesk technicians by buying my own mouse and a keyboard.

Vanilla generic peripherals seem to prevent me from expressing my creativity.

Not using vanilla js for simple function

If you're going to fucking build a fucking templating system, you fucking better make sure it fucking follows proper structure -- Bootstrap, vanilla CSS, whatever -- so that when I follow conventions your fucking shit doesn't fucking shit all over the fucking place in fifty fucking different ways.

@AlexDeLarge and any other React guys, which do you prefer? Traditional css files, whether that be vanilla or with a preprocessor, or style objects for each component.

There are some pretty clear pros i can identify for both sides, but I'm pretty sure I'm missing somethings and I'd like to hear from you guys your opinions and experiences with either

I wanna be a millionaire, so fuckin bad.

So, throughout this week there have been massive trials and tribulations regarding my lack of coding practice however through many nights and days coding I have almost completed the task I was set last week.

I didn't realise how out of practice I was so this posed as a big challenge for me. However I pulled through and tomorrow it will be ready to send for the interview!

I also have another test to do in vanilla php - Typical blog which would be such a doddle now I'm back in the zone. I just have to remember I'm not using Laravel!

The sense of accomplishment is real and I'm so relieved I've come this far. Maybe I will have this career of my dreams which I rightfully deserve.

Below is Stripe, doing random tests :)

No matter how many frameworks and supersets I try, I always conclude that nothing beats vanilla JS. ES6 in particular is such a beautiful language, and I love having fine control over what happens under the hood.

When I'm done I can just transpile it to whatever ES version, although it's slowly becoming a non-issue.

The past few days ive been looking into angular.

Its a bloated piece of crap. It makes your page twice the fucking size and adds tons of unneccessary code with shit syntax. Whatever you do in angular can be done in a normal language, even fucking vanilla javascript. Stop fucking making unneccessary frameworks for js developers who are too lazy to learn a proper language.

Learning jquery after four straight years of vanilla js makes me feel really dirty.

I want the pipeline-operator in JavaScript. I want it now!

... But then I mostly work with Vue.js (because it's awesome) in the last time and I somehow miss vanilla JavaScript. Life is cruel.

Been spending the past month and half learning first vanilla Js, and then node.js, now I'm almost at the point, where I can finally start my project 😀

Of course the shouting episodes all happened during the era I was doing WordPress dev.

So we were a team of consultants working on this elephant-traffic website. There were a couple of systems for managing content on a more modular level, the "best" being one dubbed MF, a spaghettified monstrosity that the 2 people who joined before me had developed.

We were about to launch that shit into production, so I was watching their AWS account, being the only dev who had operational experience (and not afraid to wipe out that macos piece of shit and dev on a real os).

Anyhow, we enable the thing, and the average number of queries per page load instantly jumps from ~30 (even vanilla WP is horrible) to 1000+. Instances are overloaded and the ASG group goes up from 4 to 22. That just moves the problem elsewhere as now the database server is overwhelmed.

Me: we have to enable database caching for this thing *NOW*

Shitty authors of the monstrosity (SAM): no, our code cannot be responsible for that, it's the platform that can't handle the transition.

Me: we literally flipped a single switch here and look at the jump in all these graphs.

SAM: nono, it's fine, just add more instances

Me: ARE YOU FUCKIN SERIOUS?
Me: - goes and enables database caching without any approvals to do so, explaining to mgmt. that failure to do so would impair business revenue due to huge loading times, so they have to live with some data staleness -

SAM: Noooo, we'll show you it's not our code.
SAM: - pushes a new release of the monstrosity that makes DB queries go above 2k / page load -

...

Tho on the bright side, from that point on I focused exclusively on performance, was building a nice fragment caching framework which made the site fly regardless of what shitty code was powering it, tuned the stack to no end and learned a ton of stuff in the process which allowed me to graduate from the tar pit of WP development.

So I'm coming out of one that has a focus on this stack (JS [JQuery after weeks of Vanilla JS drilling in our heads, React], Java, MySQL, Python [Django, Bottle], HTML/CSS, and a few web security concepts (XSS, SQL injections).

The whole course has been 4 months learning, 3 weeks working on a final project. Next week is the presentation, so I think I can safely comment on the course.

We moved fast, but that's to be expected. Lecture in the mornings, exercises in the afternoons, assignments due at the beginning of each week. Constantly working towards it and improving. I have been working pretty hard. We were given some help, but had to get a lot of answers online (based God StackOverflow), but that's part of it.

We touched on some concepts like inheritance in JS, Python and Java, OOP and to be open to concepts we don't know so we should be thirsty for that knowledge.

In my off time, I've begun texting myself Node and really trying to double down on React because it seems useful. I realized I was more drawn to the backend, but I was comfortable in front end as well. (Just don't ask me to design anything, my eye for aesthetics/CSS sorcery is terrible.)

The overall experience has been pretty mixed, but we were mostly unsatisfied. We weren't given then help we were promised. The explanations weren't exactly crystal clear, so we would have to teach ourselves and each other quite a bit. We worked together a lot. Some people really fell behind, some caught up, some flew ahead and thrived. (I'm somewhere between caught up and thrived, I recognize where I stand.)

I'm happy I did a bootcamp, they aren't miracle programs, but they at least kick you into place that you are learning and need to continue to learn. (Just kinda wish I had done a different one.)

Feel free to ask about anything concerning it!

Why has web development become so complicated?

I'm learning React with JSX . Why is JSX even necessary? HTML works fine. Its simple and gets the job done.

I can't stand the node_modules directory either. Opening it up reveals what seems like hundreds it not thousands of dependencies that all have their own recursive node_modules folder and the dependencies continue.

Why are we creating more unnecessary abstractions on top of more unnecessary abstractions? What happened to K.I.S.S?

What was wrong with vanilla Javascript and becoming great at that and using just that?

purist web developers be like

Am I weird for not liking Whiskey?

It just kinda tastes... bad. Everybody is taking about notes of vanilla, undertones of strawberry, BITCH where. It tastes like weird with alcohol. And the alcohol part isn't really the problem. I'd much rather drink straight up vodka. Yes it tastes like drain cleaner but at least it doesn't have this weird ass taste to it. I actually quite like vodka. I just don't get whiskey

Been a few weeks now back at the office after a good four weeks off… still no work to do….

”Guess I’ll write a compiler in C then, a good chance to brush up on it.”

”… hmm, haven’t touched any simple html in ages, maybe I try and do this frontend as vanilla as possible”

”What if I tried remaking this backend with Suave? Haven’t written much F# in a while, here’s a chance to brush up on mah mad skillzors”

Never a dull moment, and while I’m cranking out code like a maniac, I feel very, very unproductive due to no actual work getting done.

I have a question for all you Linux pros:

My son's PC runs on Linux Mint. We wants to switch to the Pantheon desktop so we installed it (I think). I can't work out how to actually switch to it, though.

We don't have an option when we log out.

On a related note, we switched to Linux from Ubuntu because his old machine couldn't handle Ubuntu's resource requirements. I'm curious whether vanilla Debian would perform better?

(No, I probably won't switch to Arch, that's a little too much for my limited Linux capabilities).

Client insisting on Vanilla JS instead of using a existing framework to design a reporting dashboard, because "first I want to build one dashboard page and see how people react to It and what all changes they want. Once we have complete picture in mind we will go for a framework". Sure, let's do the entire work twice for peanuts.

After all this time it's back to the basics mhm? Maybe yoloing PHP via SFTP to a single machine along with few thousand LLOCs of vanilla JS wasn't such a bad idea after all...

Lesson learnt. Never use vanilla bootstrap with react js

I'm really not sure. When I was 7-8 years old, I liked to view source in IE, then I somehow managed to use Javascript in the browser. First only some dumb opening of windows. And I liked Batch, so I made some files for copying, backup and stuff.

Then I got to PHP during the years from some online tutorial about making dynamic websites. My website was more static than stone, but yeah, I did page loading with PHP! Awful experience anyway, because I had to install Xampp, get it work and other stuff. 11 years old or so. (and I used Xampp only as a fileserver between laptop and desktop later, because.. PHP4... just no.)

As 12 years old or so I experienced my first World of Warcraft (vanilla) on a custom server in an internet cafe and I thought it's a singleplayer game. When I found out that no, I googled how to make my own server (hated multiplayer back then and loved good games with huge storylines). Failed miserably with ManGOS, got something to work with ArcEMU. There I learned some C++ basic stuff, which I hoped would helped me to fix some bugs. When I opened the code I was like: "Suuure." and left it like that. I learned what a MySQL database is, broke it like four times when I forgot WHERE and still rather played with websites i.e. html, css, js and optionally php when I wanted to repair a webpage for the server. With a friend we managed to get the server work via Hamachi, was fun, the server died too soon. Then I got ManGOS to work, but there wasn't really any interest to make a server anymore, just singleplayer for the lore. (big warcraft fan, don't kick me :D )

I think it was when I was 13y.o. I went to Delphi/Pascal course, which I liked a lot from the beginning, even managed to use my code on old Knoppix via Lazarus(Pascal). At this age I really liked thoae Flash games which were still common to see everywhere. So I downloaded .swfs, opened and tried to understand it. Managed to pull some stuff from it and rewrite in Pascal. Nope, never again that crap.

About the same time I got to Flash files I discovered Java. It was kind of popular back then, so I thought let's give it a try. I liked Flash more. Seriously. I've never seen so much repetitiveness and stupid styling of a code. I had either IDE for compiling C++ or Pascal or notepad! You think I wanted my code kicked all over the place in multiple folders and files? No.

So back to Pascal. I made some apps for my old hobby, was quite satisfied with the result (quiz like app), but it still wasn't the thing. And I really thought I'd like to study CS.

I started to love PHP because of phpBB forums I worked on as 15 y.o. I guess. At the same time I think there was an optional subject at school, again with Pascal. I hated the subject, teacher spoke some kind of gibberish I didn't really understand back then at all and now I find it only as a really stupid explanation of loops and strings.

So I started to hate Pascal subject, but not really the lang itself. Still I wanted something simpler and more portable. Then I got to Python as hm, 17y.o. I think and at the same time to C++ with DevC++. That was time when I was still deciding which lang to choose as my main one (still playing with website, database and js).

Then I decided that learning language from some teacher in a class seriously pisses me off and I don't want to experience it again. I choose Python, but still made some little scripts in C++, which is funny, because Python was considered only as a scripting lang back then.

I haven't really find a cross-platform framework for C++, which would: a) be easy to install b) not require VisualStudio PayForMe 20xy c) have nice license if I managed to make something nice and distribute it. I found Unity3D though, so I played with Blender for models, Audacity for music and C# for code. Only beautiful memories with Unity. I still haven't thought I'm a programmer back then.

For Python however I found Kivy and I was playing with it on a phone for about a year. Still I haven't really know what to do back then, so I thought... I like math, numbers, coding, but I want to avoid studying physics. Economics here I go!

Now I'm in my third year at Uni, should be writing thesis, study hard and what I do? Code like never before, contribute, work on a 3D tutorial and play with Blender. Still I don't really think about myself as a programmer, rather hobby-coder.

So, to answer the question: how did I learn to program? Bashing to shit until it behaved like I desired i.e. try-fail learning. I wouldn't choose a different path.

It's kinda cool how a $5 VPS (Linode Nanode) is able to run a vanilla Minecraft Spigot server for like 6-7 people and still can serve some basic stuff just fine. I get monitoring warnings about >90% CPU usage sometimes, but everything is more or less lagless.

Time to try hosting some other games: CS1.6, Doom Classic, and UT2004 up next.

As of late I'm creating private game servers on my local network in my free time for fun / relaxing

I've already running:
a World of Warcraft vanilla;
Travian version 3;

And I am currently working on a conquer online private server, but getting the right client for it is the hard part...

This is so annoying, I had 9 diff. jobs the past 2 years and this is my 10th and if this doesn't change I might reconsider my options again.

I came to work at a company that pays me like a Junior and treats me as an intern. My 20yo "boss" who acts as a project owner/lead dev doesn't want to learn anything new and sees any improvement as a waste of money. The problem is he thinks hes a great programmer but he doesn't know shit. Im mainly working on the Laravel installation because "I claimed I know Laravel". And its absolute garbage. They haven't used a single Laravel features besides routes and everything else is vanilla PHP. They write for loops that loop through $_REQUEST to remove a single character. Write 100 deep nested ifs and they abuse Elasticsearch to the point ES crashes because the program is using 1000 deep multidimensional arrays. Its only a webshop...

Everytime I try to make a suggestion like making the master branch protected, doing code reviews etc etc I get shut down because they are autistic and don't want anything to change.

What a coincidence. JQuery gets an update to 3.4.0 - and I removed the JQuery dependency that a mid-sized widget (15 kB minified) needed.

Rewriting the selector, css and trim stuff was easy. Each, children, append, empty, remove and extend were not too hard. Animations gave me more headache, but in the end, JS triggered CSS transitions worked nicely.

I was able to shave off the usual 30 kB over the wire for JQuery, and the whole thing seems snappier. Finally, I'm at vanilla everything!

Of course, it's largely due to JQuery's merits that vanilla JS is where it is today. So, thank you JQuery, and farewell.

Hey DR! I am a pretty inexperienced programmer who's learning about JS. When I was writing vanilla JS to do some simple DOM manipulation, JS seems like a pretty familiar language. However, when I start to learn about different frameworks (React, Express), the way that they code stuff (IDK how to pinpoint specific examples, it's just an overall impression) becomes very different from my experience with other programming language. I am wondering if anyone have any suggestions, have felt the same way, or know how to overcome this phase.

ps This is a general question. Please don't be pissed for lack of technical detail....

Hearing "do this , do this like this, that like that" every day removes passion from programming I had before. Now I'm starting to get deeper into javascript and to learn backend, and I'm working on a CMS with NodeJS and MySql backend, and vanilla JS on the client side. I like the architecture I had, and really like how I started working on it. Passion is back!

I don't consider myself a guru in JavaScript (hell I studied theoretical chemistry), but I do hate much of the rationalization behind building a Jenga stack of libraries, frameworks, dependencies... for building everything web related.

Many of the problems I see people solving with these giant stacks could be easily solved understanding how websites work (html, css, js and how interact with each other) with no dependencies giving smaller (for end users at least) and more maintainable code (in the sense it would not require updating dependencies that may be discontinued...)

I do imagine situations where these are ideal... Since there are not absolutes and developing is very context sensitive, but man if I have js article fatigue for ridiculous scenarios.

Last year I was asked to optimize a code in our legacy portal (yet to be replaced with the new portal). The legacy system didn't have a design phase. Straight away went to development by whatever developer available at that time.
It was seriously fucked up.

So I went and had a look at the vanilla PHP code that served data for a datatable.
** I nearly fainted **

A query was done to get data from a table without any joins.
Then for loop to display those data.
Then inside for loop, for every single column that gets data from a related table there's a fucking query.
Eg: select * from users where.... to display username. Then again select * from users where..... to display user's email, then another query for his phone number. Then another query to get service providers name, then another to get their phone number.

I think the guy who did it wrote his first hello world app with a bunch of queries and sent it to production. No one bothered to check until 4 years later when it slowed down like a friggin snail.
I'm surprised it even survived that long.

Does anyone else here find vanilla css unscalable, to a point where it's just unusable

I started a new project and only use PHP, HTML, CSS and vanilla JS. No Frameworks. No React. No Vue.

The browser loads the page instantly, there is virtually no loading time and it just works.

I've been working on the ecommerce website from hell for over a year now. I should have heard the alarm bells when the studio who were running the project took a month to pay my deposit but still expected me to start working, but I explained that I wouldn't start without some form of security and they were cool with it, so I carried on.

It started off as a simple build with simple products, no product variations etc and a few links on the designs which appeared to lead to external links, and checkout and cart pages were nowhere to be seen. It wasn't a big money job so I just build them in as plain and straightforward as I could, in line with how the rest of the site looked. They then changed their mind about how they wanted these to look, and added loads of functionality to the site throughout the build, so by the end of the line, the scope of work had completely changed. I also had loads of disagreements in terms of design and useability, as their designs straight-up weren't going to function otherwise, plus every round of changes meant that I had to prolong the job further and fit it around work for other clients.

Fastforward a few more months and I get sent a really angry email with some of the client's complaints, including one that raised an issue with the user journey, and the finger of blame was pointed at me. The user journey had been a part of the designs from the start, and this was never raised as an issue for A WHOLE YEAR. They then said that it had to go live on Monday (three days after they sent email with these huge new structural changes). I told them I could no longer work on the project but was happy to waive the rest of my fee (3/4 of the total fee, when I had essentially completed the site, minus 2 minor bugs), so they could find another developer in the limited time they had. At first they refused to hire another developer, claiming that it would be too expensive, which made no sense, as for a few minor fixes and out of scope additions he could get paid a wage that would have otherwise paid for the majority of the work I had done on the site. I stood my ground and finally they found someone, so I sent over all of the files and database to their new developer and asked him to give me a heads up when I could remove the staging site from my server. The next day, I received an email from the studio asking me to fix some bugs the developer was requesting I fix so he could carry on with the site. They were basically asking me to work more, for free, to enable him to walk off with the majority of the money and do less work. They also forwarded a suuuuuper shitty, condescending email from him, listing all the things he thought was wrong with the site (he even listed 'no favicon' although they'd never supplied a graphic for this). He also wrote a paragraph at the bottom EXPLAINING MY JOB TO ME and telling me:

I get the feeling you like to write Javascript, while being one of the easiest languages to learn, it can also be one of the hardest to master. While I applaud you for writing Vanilla JS, it looks like you have a general problem with structuring your application.

Not sure if I'm being oversensitive here but it felt so patronising, and i couldn't even go for an angry walk to get it out my system because of social distancing lol.

Let a girl quarantine in peace!!!!!!

Being forced to learn Angular for a project, then as my confidence kept growing those same guys said "actually, we are not going to use any Angular, vanilla Javascript will be enough".

PS: months later those same guys: "Hey, maybe you could learn Angular 2 for our next project". We never worked together again :/

I just styled something that appears to be an "parent" style change when a certain "child" was hovered.

Vanilla CSS. I think I've seen it all now.
My brain is spaghetti right now 🤪

I love CSS, but don't like preprocessors (like SASS, Less, or Stylus) :/ There's nothing more beautiful than vanilla CSS with zero workflow :)

No matter the hard work you want to do, how much time you want and really spend to complete something, always a scumbag project manager will set the dates so that you won't make it in f*ing time!! Really now, it is frustrating!!

Well, I moved to a new company and all seems vanilla. But you know. Now I have this lesson to remind myself.

Google's attempts to follow the iPhone just make me think, "Might as well get an iPhone."

I wish Google would create a high-end phone with grippy, durable case, replaceable two-day battery and SD card slot. Vanilla Android with latest updates. Bring it in at a reasonable price (which I'd hope would be possible if not trying to squeeze everything).

Given me a real alternative here. Don't try and lead with design. It's letting Apple choose the battlefield.

Retarded point of view: "Angular is great for enterprise because it enforces good coding practices and makes developers more efficient."

BULLSHIT. This is the biggest lie and people die on their stupid Angular hills with this. It's about team culture, regardless of framework or language.

I've seen some messy as FUCK Angular code that takes a dev way more time to do a basic thing than it should. Angular is not more resistant to technical debt than any other JS thing.

"But TypeScript." Utterly useless if you're just adding any for every object and variable.

Angular is no better than vanilla JS.

I dare you, challenge my point of view.

Little bit of background I've been a front end developer for the past eight years not a good one but I get by. Last 4 working with consulting firms for fortune 500 clients. Big projects big plans big structure, following someone else's lead and just knowing the basics of code reviewing, git flow, code deployment and everything else... life happens and i end up as a front end developer for a big company not tech related that wants to depend less from consultants and do more in house dev. Seems a pretty straightforward project front in angular. Back on python doing queries to a database with sql server. I finish the on-boarding and after two weeks finally get access to the repos. Worst spaghetti code I've ever seen. Seems like someone took a vanilla script project from 10 years ago and push it into an angular tutorial project. Commented code, no comments for the code, deprecated functions still there, no use of typescript nested ifs hell. I try to do my job doing new features do comments clean up a bit. Senior developers get annoyed

When I met her she was just plain html, I took my time and styled her with love, I never loved intruders so I kicked bootstrapCss outta the way,

made my custom queries, and with some vanilla JS she looked like the DOM of my dreams, but now our relationship has grown through the users(years) and things are becoming more object oriented and it feels like I'm no longer in control, first it started with jQuery and some Sass and maybe I thought we could get along, but then came React and his Routers and though they said they'll be partners, 😅😅
Now I know they ....
FEEL FREE TO GIVE THE PERFECT ENDING 😊

DOM manipulation using vanilla JS is now "Low-level web programming"? 💀

I'm getting caught up on my personal project because I need to generate a lot of Dynamic HTML using JS and it's just a pain. I hate adding dependencies to a project, especially personal projects with no deadlines, so tomorrow I will be writing a vanilla templating system, and hopefully that will un-funk me.

Worst interview rejection.

I was just out of college and making the interview rounds set up through my college's job placement.

I wish I still had the letter (I would have attached a screenshot), which
started out nice enough with the usual 'It was a pleasure meeting you and thank you for your interest in the position..' blah blah blah.

Ending with "You will never be considered for a developer position here at MFA Oil."

I was like "What the hell happened?!" I thought the interview went great..I had no experience and she made it clear they were looking for experienced developers, but no weird questions+answers, nothing. If anything, I had to be the most vanilla of the 10+ other college-grad devs waiting in the waiting room. Interview was maybe 10 minutes with the standard script of questions like 'Where do you want to be in 5 years?' which we all knew and rehearsed.

My only guess was they had me confused with someone else.

Asciidoc! I finally got around to play around with it and it is just so awesome! Best tool for documentation hands down! So many improvements over Markdown:

- importing real code snippets based on tags with syntax highlighting and annotations (which can be also auto numbered with "<.>" instead of "<1>"!)
- Admotions! Love them!
- automatic TOC! Finally!!
- joining a child item to a parent item in a list with "+" in a new line (this one took me a while to understand, but no more offset items in lists! Love it!)
- making tables and loading data from an actual CSV-file! The future is now!!
- embedding images with a fixed size

Just a few things from the top of my head. I don't know why I put up with vanilla Markdown all these years...

Last but not least, a big THANK YOU to everyone who recommended Asciidoc! I accidentally stumbled across multiple mentions of Asciidoc a few months ago. Sorry, but you know who you are! Much love to you and your loved ones! You changed my life for the better. Thank you!

Why do people hate jQuery so much? 30KB is basically nothing in times of modern bandwidth and for me CSS selectors are mich more readable than the Vanilla JS functions.
Im not judging and would be happy if someone explains it to me or shows better alternatives.

!rant

For a bunch of application redesigns that we are doing at work I am letting the other two developers in my department help with selecting the stack. Normally, we work with Java and PHP, and while they seem to enjoy php I find them concerned at the possibility of making it more Java centric.

So I compiled a list of examples of different tech stacks that are not only more modern (cuz our Java stuff is old JSP stuff) but also simple to learn and use. Mind you, the point is to make this a gradual change, not just rewrite the entire house from scratch.

the list contained examples in:
Python: django and flask

Ruby: Ruby on Rails

Java: Spring Boot

Golang: Small self made mvc framework I built, nothing fancy on it, it uses templates and shit, didn't make it api centric

Node: Express examples in both vanilla JS and TypeScript

php with Laravel.

Since we work with php most of the time as well I imagined that they would be more inclined for Laravel, but I was wrong :P they seemed to like the Node Express route and the Golang route more than anything else with Python and Django being close.

Personally I know that there is more to selecting a stack, but initial perceptions make for a lot of things in selection of the stack.

Pretty excited, if they gauge everything considered in regards to what we have and we found Golang to be a clear winner it would give them the chance to add a nice and competitive tech to their resumes.

not a rant, or anything per se, just wanted to share some stuff with y'all

Progress on my sudoku application goes well. Damn, what is javascript fantastic. While the code of the previous version that I posted here was alright I did decide that i want to split code and html elements after all. I have now a puzzle class doing all resolving / validating and when a field is selected or changed, it emits an event where the html elements are listening to. It also keeps all states. So, that's the model. puzzle.get(0,1).value = 4 triggers an update event. It also tracks selection of users because users selecting fields is part of the game. I can render full featured widgets with a one liner. Dark mode and light mode are supported and size is completely configurable by changing font-size and optional padding. So far, painless. BUT: i did encounter some stuff that works under a CSS class, but not if I do element.style.* =. Made me crazy because I didn't expect that.

Betrayals and Affairs ..

After trying development with vanilla js, then with the help of jQuery, then AngularJS, then Angular, then Vuejs, then React,

I spent the last 3-4 years of my life loving React and devoting all my frontend projects to React. React was so simple and straightforward and I ... I committed to it

but, I recently checked out Svelte, and maybe i shouldn't have let curiosity take the better of me but i did and, im heartbroken to say, I can no longer love react the same way. as nice as react was, like in any relationship, we had some ups and downs, i got bothered by some little details that i learned to live with, but Svelte .. Svelte solved these little twirks and it just felt even simpler...

I created a new Vite project today, and it asked me what framework to initialize, and i kept hopping between React and Svelte. for 10 minutes i was thinking of all the history i shared with React, of how scary it is to commit to something new, but i clicked on Svelte.

I know i may have betrayed a commitment to React, but sometimes things pile up and i .. I had to listen to my heart

Forgive me and thank you for reading my confession

So, my favourite language is Python, and for web developing I use Pyramid, and to stay in my "comfort zone" I use brython for client scripting, don't take me wrong, I love javascript, but for just a bit of performance lost I like being able to use all my pre-existing python code if I need to...
So, this was my first work experience, for a military industry, we had to make a service for uploading big files and sending them via email.
I heard one thing that shot me out of my "comfort zone" (I'll call it cf from now on)... "Use php"...
So, I already had written in php and I've always disliked it, perl-ish and broken as a bethesda game (i like bethesda games, but they are broken)
Another thing: javascript vanilla or jquery, never liked jquery either, so I decided to use vanilla js...
So, after 6 months of work, my partner and I finished it...
Well, more than one year later that mess we had to make to satisfy our boss' most absurd desires is not online yet, I search it on google every month, so yeah, 6 months of my life wasted (also, it was a "stage", so not only I didn't get any recognition, but they didn't give me any money)

Myself. I started with PHP about 7 years ago. Most people nowadays don't really start writing vanilla code in language they are learning anymore. Everyone just want to see results and fast, I didn't. I needed everthing to be perfect from the start. It took me a little longer to get shit done as to anyone else and sometimes it really bothered me. Am I stupid? In the end it turned out, I was not *that* stupid. In the end I learned to hate half-baked solutions of these "fast" people.
Along the way, my coding style got better and better as I gained experience. In my opinion, coding standards are a good for helping you find your own coding style. You shouldn't use them blindly just because they exist. You and your colleagues should always find the optimal solution that works for you. I probably wouldn't be able to work in a company where the code is written the way I hate. It hurts when I have to write something under a lot of pressure and just glue things together resulting in a pile of mess.

I feel like I know what I shouldn't know. I know a little about using jQ and JS (mainly little plugins) but I can't code js from scratch.

I use vanilla html and css and my environment is notepad++.

I feel like I should know SASS, Pug and use Webstorms or some other professional IDE. And learn js.

Which preprocessors do you prefer? Which IDEs and which point to start learning js from scratch?

So i'm visiting the JavaScript bubble every now and then when i'm writing on the userscript i develop to fix bugs in our ticketing system or fix some clients website they negelected. Every time i'm searching for answers to the weird problems that inevitably turn up i have to filter out all the threads that derail with the classic 'google jQuery basic arithmetic plugin' craziness to find an actual vanilla solution to my problem.

All the time i wonder why on earth people put up with this framework hell. This is part serious question and part rant but seriously, how did we come to this? With all that jQuery, React, Node, whatever stuff i'm kinda losing the overview over what's even todays standard. I always try to keep my code as vanilla as possible without using external libraries. But it seems the entire web development industry is heading the completly other way. I tried to look into a few frameworks but i never really see the appeal. Just now i looked up react native because the last 20 rants talked about it and immediately noped out because they fucking create a DOM in js, why the fuck would you do this?!

Worst thing about this framework shithole is that some frameworks are beeing pulled into the mix for very weird and unnecessary reasons. Best example is a charts library i recently used to visualize a database of temperatures that was completely written in native js but pulled jQuery in for the equivalent of window.addEventListener('load',function(stuff)) and i was furious. I rewrote the code and could throw out the jQuery dependency with no problem. What the fuck is wrong with people?

Alright since you made it here: I'm not trying to throw any of you under the bus for using frameworks. I just fail to understand why you would use these. To each their own and unless your site has the performance of the ticketing system i use at work that takes like 15 seconds to load one fucking page i won't complain at all. But pull in a framework just to do a task you can easily do in native js in remotely the same timeframe you are on my list.

I am a fresher in web development. I have already learnt to use nodejs, react, angular, vanilla js and made many projects. Majority of the work I feel is just CRUD based, sure there are some exciting things but they are only of a small percentage.

All that innovation HAPPENING is just glorified way of making a CRUD APP ONLY.
Oh mvc worked great on server side let's bring it to client side
OH mvc is such a mess, who thought about doing this.
Oh react redux is so revolutionary let's remake our app using it,,
Oh es6 fuck yeah, Babel, webpack sure, now my crud app is super performant.
Oh graphql, motherfucking cutting edge CRUD APP......

I need to know what's next, is there any breaking of this cycle

Best thing about adulting, having half a freezer full of ice cream and cones in the pantry...

Lost 2 days with a non-highlighted error.
Vanilla JS:
Calling a function with a lower case character which shouldn't be lowercase.
I didn't never understood why neither VSCode nor Chrome showed the error.

"The silence isn't so bad
'Till I look at my hands and feel sad
'Cause the spaces between my fingers
Are right where yours fit perfectly"

-Me to my PS4 Controller

PHP why do people hate you ? personnaly i like React but i prefer vanilla js 😍
Can anyone tell me why people hate PHP. He is a good guy, i think 😅
exit;

I need to performance monitor our web app. I have been working on some speed improvments since some of our customers have complained. My boss wants me to be able to produce stats which he can use (and abuse) to highlight to customers that we have got quicker. I am currently looking at blackfire for PHP profiling to help with speeding things up but I need a top site overview for everything. Our stack is PHP (no framework), JS (jquery + vanilla), MySQL on Windows mainly. On premise solutions would be good since we don't traditionally run in the Cloud. Our system isn't SaaS and is installed on dedicated data centre servers or on premise

Aspiring freelance/junior web dev here, I'm familiar with WSGI (using Flask), some PHP, Apache, JSON, and Vanilla JS. What other technologies should I be learning to make myself more marketable?

I`m new to coding. So i`m also new at ranting.

I know i have something to rant about. But my nerd culture is just not yet at the level.

I have been taught by a mate to used linux and started vanilla javascript. We use intellj as IDE.

So i have to speak to this client whose previous IT provider was gonna code his thing with ASP and visual studio!!!
Right?! WTF?!!! But that`s all i got!!!!

Im pretty sure its a wtf?! But i don`t have the rock solid reasons why.

Please ranters help me become better at rantong and tell me i`m not wrong and why ;)

I’m always tired all the time. Depression and what not but today I am TIRED

Had an interview that requires vanilla javascript but I suck at algos even tho I was getting it done till time ran out. We gelled tho so I hope they see potential and move to next round.

But the good news is. I had a follow up interview based on a challenge. It’s the second I’ve ever had and I did well this time.
So much so that they’re booking another interview for tomorrow.
So I’m done with the technical portions of the process.
This is the first time I’ve gotten this far and I’m so happy. I’m hoping really that this is the one cause I doubt I have the energy and will power to keep going though the processes.

I’m so excited. It’s as if all my work is slowly showing and I’m getting closer and closer

Wish me luck guys. Hopefully I ace it as I come across well In General Chats.

This is my last application. If it doesn’t work I think I’m done with dev life and job hunt.

Fingers crossed I’ve found the one

YO FUCK THE GNOME DM
I WANTED A PRETTY DM WITH XFCE AS MY DESKTOP
I installed arch all the way finally <3
but seriously, why dosen't gnome dm give you the choice? i want something good looking; sddm is kinda ugly, lxdm is ugly, lightdm ain't even working, and gdm i obviously have issues with. any sughestions? does kdm still work / does it work separately? i know SLiM is deprecated. thanks in advance
With Love,
-the kid who just finally installed vanilla arch on his own and just wants a goddamn nice looking display manager that lets him choose his desktop enviro

I have lost now another device to planned obscolence (how is that still legal), my g3 officially took its last breath two days ago, first it was its battery dying (thousands of devices broke that way [exactly two years after buying it] and at that time there was no batteries to replace it with) - whoever was brave enough to hold onto his device for longer than the battery failure - he then faced the simcard reader breaking and that was my case now too.

I asked many colleagues for help and even found a guy that does repairs for the oldest phones (got too excited), but even he couldnt find the issue, besides a guess that its the main chip that partially died on purpose or it got somewhere desoldered by the always and poorly managed overheating issue, which would cost almost the same to replace as just getting a new phone in the end and even then, theres probably a third switch they planned, to give you the final bullet.

I got a Xiaomi Redmi Note 4 now and really gotta say they have an amazing near vanilla android experience and their "two phone" isolated spaces are quite handy to seperate work and private notifications, apps and files.

It was even compatible with lineageOS and has a simple website to unlock the bootloader (a first for me, never saw any company making it that easy), but after trying their version of it, I don't even have to switch.

I will still miss the vibration motor of the g3, the feedback of it when typing is still to this day the best one I ever tried.

Getting back to the cpp applet I started somewhat recently (Vanilla + Gentoo kernel version checker)...

Me: "debugging c plus plus code"
Dictation: "f***ing c++ code"
...
Well, it's not too far off.

Do coding test for Vue.js job, because I don't want to work with shitty Angular anymore.

HR person sends React test, with some random string manipulation question in vanilla JavaScript.

I don't do React, but tried the test anyway. Better than shitty Angular.

Told her uhm this is the wrong framework...

I hate web dev.

Question: We are planning to transition our old ES5 codebase to modern ES6/ES7 and even typescript.

What would be the build tool you would recommend if we want to start supporting ES6/ES7 and even Typescript?

Webpack, Vite some other?

This is a vanilla Javascript Project with large codebase it's been built using custom build tools like UglifyJS and UglifyCSS and of after lots of begging it finally got the green light to move to a more modern build tool and start supporting a more standard JavaScript Features.

Mainly I want to move to TypeScript but transition would be slow so the build tool would need to support .ts and .js as well, that is traspile both the .ts and .js into one final production build.

What build tool would you recommend for that?

I was talking to a friend, and they were arguing that HTML was in fact a programming language. Their main argument was that you needed HTML to make a website.

I told them you could use something like React, and they said it doesn't count since you're still writing was is basically HTML

As a result, I will be writing an entire and actually decent webapp in nothing but vanilla JavaScript to prove him wrong. Just a <head> section and a body that loads a JavaScript file

Wish me luck

Oh man vanilla js can still be fun to play around with. Back to the basics...

Customer complain about errors reported on their content on their website.
Checking their content in WordPress and they was adding a script to include jQuery and another js with html tags.

So trying to understand why jQuery is required and on a 100 lines js vanilla, was used on line 3 to get an attribute of an element.

And they was breaking a site for this.

@ everyone who keeps pushing Vue via node

Vue via npm:
- shit
- bundling so you can save 15% on car insurance
- webpack/etc to condense your 50TB node_modules folder
- have to deploy, if you're in the US then it'll probably be in the middle East or maybe North Korea if that falls out

Vue via script tag:
- works awesome
- pretty feckin fast
- can be deployed purely static
- easy debugging from dev console
- easy templating for frontend
- can use existing html/css
- easy to work in teams with people without having everyone install npm
- if you have a designer they will love you for making it easy to style things
- you can cache it and make it offline without any of the new bullshit vuex
- you can use vanilla libraries without a mixin, polyfill, bundler, or etc anus

guy taking one of my courses is wondering why bitbucket can't reach his local machine address at 192.168.0.13 😂

🤡

(and inb4 annoying rubes like sidtheitkid or whoever), in the lesson I CLEARLY explain the steps of local IP -> router -> public IP -> internet, as well as the port forwarding / routing needed

probably like 5 of you on this site anyway who actually understand routing, the rest argue about which is better, vanilla javascript or <insert framework of your choice here> yawn. i grow weary

farewell

Fuck FE development. Tweaking or adding some stuff is OK, but making the whole FE from zero is a pain for me. Vanilla JS is OK, but I need to use Angular, which I don't know how to use properly. Generally, right now I find FE as a big confusing mess... Why Angular? Because fuck React - it is even more confusing. I just can't keep all these things in my head... You want to add something? Fine, add a dependency, import, export it, import again, that shit does not work alone, so you import another shit... IDE says it's all good, look it's up and running! But you open the app and it's not even loading because of errors. Another module missed, ffs. IDE can't really save you here, sigh...

I am a BE dev, I am straight out bad at FE. I don't hate FE, but I hate that I am forced to do it and I need to do it fast, without having time for learning it.
Ughh... I feel somewhat better now :\ Now back to making there modules work...

Why is it that homelessness is suddenly more appealing to me than programming two Remote Desktop connections deep with a template engine no one has ever heard of before and vanilla JS to manipulate the DOM.

!rant

I'm a rather young developer, self-learned everything and started when I was 13 (now 20) but I still feel like I'm a total beginner since I have not yet mastered the things I am OK at.

Php (laravel, since it makes things much easier), js (jquery, bad at vanilla, have used angular and ember but not mastered), node, linux, html, css, photoshop, illustrator, sql, mongo and windows servers

I know little about many things, can create things that are asked of me but the methods I use are rather bad imo.. ex: I finish coding a section of a site, but when I need to add a new feature I find myself rewriting most of the stuff to add the new feature and in the end still feeling like the code could be optimized further, even though I have no idea how.

TL;DR I write bad code, but things work as long as I am monitoring them. I know little about alot of stuff but mastered none of them.

What should I do? Go to school for programming?

Seriously anything mozilla developers touch turns to shit, what the fuck, pdf.js was working just fine before, rendering a pdf in under half a second, now it visibly fucking does a tv scan loading a 100x100 pdf, good job you fucking cunts, you did it again, same you did to vanilla firefox, you did to pdf.js, not to mention that they fucking change their variables that the library exposes every fucking week.

Is it just me or is Samsung always a year after with their update when it comes to OS? Next phone Will be pixel, all about that vanilla tho.

Managing countless dependencies makes me wonder if we can escape the madness and return to the simplicity of vanilla JS. Must be better than being doomed wandering the labyrinth, right? 🤔🔄🕸️

HOLY FUCK! Why is JS world so fucking confusing? I haven't even started learning it and its already giving me a headache. I feel like there are a billion different things i have to learn that aren't just "vanilla js". All i want to do is learn some web dev, take on freelance work, become a digital nomad. Im a simple C++ and ios/android developer things are so straight forward. JS seems like a clusterfuck of just stuff 😧 Id like to say this isnt a my language is > than yours rant. This is a "like what the fuck" rant. My brain was like Html, Css, JS cool thats all i have to learn... boy was i wrong. Can someone give me a word of wisdom as i go down this apparent rabbit hole?

I hate Vue. There I said it. I hate components. I hate this stupid error that I keep getting. I hate that I just want a simple answer to why I keep getting this error and that seems to be difficult to find. Where is my vanilla JavaScript?

I just spent an hour researching about how to do this thing in a particular JavaScript framework when I remembered I can do it in CSS 🤣 I'm so embarrassed I really need to practice my vanilla
Worst of all I did find StackOverflow answers with the framework solution but it's so easy in CSS

When you finish a project that abuses vanilla js and canvas for real-time updates on tables generated from drag actions in a graphic (no raphael, paperjs or konvas) and test it in IE 😄
Thank god it's going to be applied in a controlled environment... a real browser can be used 😇

Is there a direct argument why inline CSS is bad? I keep hearing "it's hard to change" but if you replace style="margin: 25px" with class="margin-20" then changing that everywhere to margin-25 is exactly as hard, and changing margin-20 to mean margin: 25px is much worse.

Was using manjaro (based on Arch) and decided to stop being a loser and installed vanilla arch. Also manjaro broke cuz it sucks. I use arch now btw.

Update on my 60% keyboard and (neo)vim journey:

I've been getting much more used to the motions and hand posture required to use vim, but I still don't understand people who use it as their main editor.

I'm still using vanilla nvim, because:
- I am afraid of learning to install plugins
- I want to master the baseline experience before adding more

I enjoy the snappiness, and I feel my keyboard skills further improving, but everything about neovim is disappointing me from the syntax highlighting to the clunky copy/paste to the difficulty of finding code you need.

In VSCode, I can just do ctrl + p to go to any file, f2 to symbol rename, ctrl + shift+ f to do a recursive directory search. These are things offered only by plugins in nvim, but are available out-of-the-box in vscode.

Even saving your file is clunky. I've gotten used to esc + :w, but it's just more keystrokes than ctrl + s.

Sure, my hand is RIGHT in the middle of the keyboard, and key for key, I'm probably writing code faster when I'm in a groove. But there are so many things that are easy in vscode that are difficult in vim that I know that I'm losing time anyways.

What is the framework you use to generate front end ui

Javascript vanilla, vue.js, angular ? And why you use it

I reset my Linode VPS to vanilla Arch after the blundered attempt to use an unsupported Linux distro. Now I'm reinstalling OpenVPN and decided to try out IPv6 networking over the tunnel. Got my free address block and it is SO AWESOME, even typing the addresses feels nicer. I never want to touch IPv4 octets again.

Why haven't I learned about js fetch before now. I've even used socket.io!

Fetch is amazing and I just built a function for using fetch with WordPress AJAX hooks. Yes I know it's WordPress and there's jQuery but all of my custom plugins use vanilla js as a little fuck you.

Oh yeah but ie doesn't support it at all

The fun times, watching the little weenie down voting the guy who thinks vanilla js is better than jQuery. Here I thought devs were meant to be more intelligent, yet somehow a 30kb wrapper for js is better than js itself...

Because of the amount of complaining I do at work concerning legacy php applications the HOD is trying to push for different technologies to use for backend services. We have met multiple times to discuss the proper way of handling the situation since there are a lot of very obvious things to consider regarding the push for a new tech stack. The typical names have come about, but my biggest issue will be training people for these stacks.

Testing environments with docker and so forth, push for CERTAIN applications to be more API centric and the use of better frontend frameworks that will remain standard for years to come(hard to bet on this one but I tend to orefer React) among other things are the topics of conversation.

Personally I would love to move the shop to something geared towards Golang, thing is, the lead dev is complaining about it saying that the training for a new language would just take time. After a couple of examples he is still not convinced.

I think its wrong of him to center himself on just PHP and JQUERY as the main development stack he uses and learning new things should be part of the job, I also have a case against the spaghetti code that results from just using vanilla php with no proper development practices(composer based systems, oop etc etc you get the gist)

In the end I am starting to think that it will become one of those "fuck off I am the boss" type of deal since I am going to be here after a long time and he has about 2 years before he medically retire.

MORE WEBDEV ADVENTURES

Took a break for a while due to personal stuff. Just got a job (have to get a stupid work permit from school first to actually be able to work tho), had some shit happen with two close friends that now hate me. Right now I'm upset about something that another really good friend did. So I've been doing some webdev to distract myself for a bit.

So I'm turning my URL bar that I had into a little command bar. It'll be what I use to configure stuff along with URLS and shit. I was building a little config menu that I really hated doing, was just becoming too much of a mess. Currently changing the look of it just a bit, then I'm gonna work on the functionality of it later.

Made my weather divs dynamically generated. Turned like 65 lines in the HTML file to ~20 lines of JavaScript that makes that ~65 lines. And it turns out that it doesn't really affect the loading time at all, which was my original worry. My next task for that is to save the weather predictions so the script doesn't have to grab a whole 14kb file every reload (I know, that part's a little bad). The entire page with the icons and all comes out to ~30kb so far. The icons make up about half of that, but they'll never all be in use because only 5 are on screen at any time and there are 7 total. Plus the fact that one may be in use multiple times (like this very moment actually).

Then I want to have an RSS reader which I've been putting off for a while now. Trying to get everything else done before I do that.

At this very moment, the page takes about 1.4 seconds to load. I'm trying to avoid putting anything I don't need in it. Like I'm using vanilla everything. No frameworks or anything. But that's just my personal preference.

I'll make sure to share it with you guys when I have everything built and functional. I've had a lot of interruptions while doing this. My personal life tends to get in the way of shit I try to do, because I let it get to me.

Anyways I'm just rambling at this point. I fucking love you guys

Angular Vs React Vs Vue for an e-commerse website?
Please, don't hold back.. :)

i'm starting to like reactjs over vanilla, but i can't help but remember how it suffers on npm's dependency hell. i mean just look at what happened before at left-pad. it makes you feel like the entire system is so fragile.

Hello council of elders.. or should I say "console"? Heh? Heh? I've been up for a long time sorry.

Anyway. I've started learning framework stuff. Angular right now. Been long overdue tbh. And I found a free course on udemy and followed it. It's cool and everything but I gotta ask...

Why can't I just use vanilla js and everything from scratch? I'm not sure if its the course I'm using (I'd appreciate more resources. Thanks) but I feel like it's a lot of effort. Is there something I'm missing or haven't learned yet?

It might sound stupid please let me know why it's better to use that than regular methods. Apparently it's meant to make stuff easier but I feel like it's just a lot linking files and making various things in different places.

Also. Other stupid question which might just be cause of the course but like... Is it mostly just for manipulating json??

Thanks. More questions to come soon!!

I already developed with Angular, I thought it was cool. ReactJS, I thought it was good. But I've just discovered Vue with vanilla Javascript and I'm completely in love.

Despair +
Craving sweet stuff +
Quarantine lead to a new interesting search algorithm.

I call it diabetes search.

It find's anything edible with enough sweetness or taste.

Current result is promising.

I found couverture chocolate, cocoa powder, maple syrup, vanilla sugar, crunched haselnuts...

I had some eggs, flour, and milk left.

The kitchen looks like in the movies.... When a martial arts battle took place inside a kitchen.

And I'm slightly comatose.

But: Pancakes with something Nutella like. Just more nutty.

Diabetes search very successful.

I've been always thinking that all the web frameworks sucks, and a person should always use vanilla/pure php coding, the reason to say this is that overtime you will have to re-update your framework, watch out for fatal error due to compatibility, issues shows up when a function is deprecated due to the framework forcing you to re-code your stuff, isn't this a waste of time? Isn't this a pain in the ass? Finally isn't a framework a result of a pure coded php?

How do you feel about using TypeScript with React? I appreciate the benefits, but, as every snippet of React code everywhere on the web is vanilla JS,I just don't want the cognitive overhead.

Yes, I know TS is JS, but, if I'm not going to use the features, why bother? I'd want to strongly type props, state, etc.

What's the status of TypeScript support in the React ecosystem (eg Router, MUI, etc.)?

I'm kinda hoping Reason will get some traction as the type inference is much better, but, will that happen? Or is that going to fizzle so it's a choice between TS and JS?

Appreciate any thoughts on this---including those from anyone who's in the same boat.

Looking for views on TS in React ecosystem---no need to sell me on TS in general.

Why do people love using jQuery so much? 🤮

When the designer uses a react component in the design and we have to convert to vanilla or redo..

alright i know this is not the right place and all but I'm running out of options nothing from so works for me i need to start a download by calling a POST method in my api tried using a form and some ajax but nothing working anyone can give pointers ? (vanilla js jquery no framework)

The one in which I am rn is the reason why so many people dislike php, jquery and Java on the server.

Then previous to this one, classic ASP for the web interface and our desktop components were delphi (OLD ass delphi)

Mind you, these are all tech stacks that I do like (php, java and O Pascal in particular) but really dislike in:

php: we have just your standard procedural spaghetti php on some old ass shit.

Classic ASP: Same as with php, no proper structure, made more apparent by the intense limitations of VBScript, I did enjoy the language tho, had it evolved better It would have been more tolerable, but the hoops i had to take to build a propee API in it....boooooy that shit was an eye opener.

Delphi: Not bad in itself, but the original dev had a shit notion about how architecture should work.....or what architecture is for that matter.

The Java one: this shit was coded when Spring was already an alternative to just fucking around with JSP, or any other framework for that fucking matter. Dude tried....TRIED to implement design patterns in it and it failed on every single fucking component. Worst of all, it was coded in such a shit way that during certain...err...conditions, the bottleneck proved too massive of an ubdertaking and the app chokes and needs to be restarted ... constantly

their use cases for jquery are not bad, but loading all of jquery for the shit they mostly do could have been easily done with just standard vanilla JS.

I got more, but thede are just from the top of my head

I love php, mind you, but shit like this makes me see why some people GREATLY dislikes it.

I alsp have some old web forms in c# and vb net that I loathe, funny enough the code for thise in vb.net is more elegant, almost as if it were from a different developer.

Motherfucking peace of shit....
Dont know to whom I should direct this to .

Was creating a new login page for web app using Quasar(vue.js). Since my application have 2 different types of user, which also have different UI, and functionality.
One is written in vanilla ( and is quiet heavy) and the other one in vuejs ( though earlier it was written in vanilla too ). Login page too was written in vanilla which was working fine.
Now just yesterday I finished a prototype for the third type of user, which is also written in vuejs. Now I decided to re create login page using vuejs. Quiet small and easy to do. Finished it yesterday itself. Now since today's morning I am trying to configure it so that it this piece of shit just let me log in. It was authentication and verifying but not letting me log in.
( On server after authentication, I set cookies/token on clients browser and auto reload the page, so during next request to server/ or during reload, server will read the cookie/token and send the specific admin panel to user)

Prick. Dick.
It was setting cookie, but not at the '/' path. Mother fucker.
It was setting cookie to the path I was sending login credentials ( which was different from '/', I.e.- /login/verify=password )
So it was setting cookie/token at '/login/verify=password'.
Even tried setting path for cookie at server. Read everything on internet. MF nothing worked. All I came across was, 'this is CORS' .... 'this is CORS'. Assholes, if it were CORS', how then I am able to make request to server and getting response without error

Only a hour ago, when I made get request to '/login/verify=password' I figured out, cookie is being sent to server for this path only. Then did some changes at server, so to send login credentials to '/'. Now that shit is working

Fucking waste of time. Wasted more than 6 hours. Asshole.

Btw, if you can suggest a better way to login, then please.

Why should you choose between coffee and tea when you can drink both at the same time?
Haha I actually enjoy brewing vanilla tea and coffee ☕

Finally accepted as telematics lab. assistant

Had to go to 30 years old initiation tradition by drinking 'The Drink' before getting lab. full access

Full Recipe: Mineral water, instant coffee, vanilla milk, cola, banana, pineapple, apple, melons, cup ramen, peanuts, snickers, m&m, potato chips, nata de coco.

Step:
1. Shove it all to blender
2. Blend
3. Bon Appetit

New employee joining the company next week. Where should she start on JS?

New employee is joining the company I work for next week, and I have the responsibility to teach, train and give her tasks. It is my first time training someone so I really have no idea how to do this. :P

She knows a little bit of Vanilla JS. Our projects are built with AngularJS (v1) with ES6, Webpack & Babel, ReactJS & jQuery. I want to put her on the project using AngularJS.

What order of learning do you recommend? VanillaJS, AngularJS & ES6? AngularJS & ES6? Or if you have any other suggestion, feel free to let me know.

Thank You.

Le Angular programmer

Me: I need to add all these fields across this 30 page (seriously) questionnaire to the dataLayer for Google Analytics...I'll see if I can loop over all the controls and get the native element so that I can do things with it.

Also me: WTF do you mean I don't have access to the native element? Damn it! What does Google say?

**terrible french accent**
A few moments later
**end terrible french accent**

Me: I don't want to have to create a directive to put on every single one of these fields. That's dumb. Not gonna do it...bad vanilla JavaScript?

**terrible french accent**
Several minutes later
**end terrible french accent**

Me: Wait...if we use this directive then the directive can handle all the things AND we can use it outside of this questionnaire. The rest of the app can send this data so that Google Analytics can know all the things

Man Google..You sure do know what I want before I know what I want...Are you spying on me too?

It seems they mistaken me for italian giving me spaghetti all over the product. Go to frontend to check the app, react with weird jQuery, no routes, pages summoned by the templates that have concatenated values and html in vanilla js, changing screens/pages with jQuery, no router... ok lets see the other app, react, redux, offline capabilities and tought myself niicee hut nothing work as intended with clusterfuck of hacky workarounds that makes app look like it is working but with hardcoded data. Offline means automatic sync when you get the network back, right? Oh backend never developed any sync, so you guys can do it, we have to fix and patch some important stuff! I don't like php but whatever, let's see what is going on there... So much spaghetti bolognese there that Bologna actually called to ask if they can buy some, they are out of stock because of us!

This is just like that song mess.css from stdout, but in any file you open!

Living on deserted island eating grass and coconut for the rest of the life doesn't seem so bad atm!

Browser automation is a PITA. I’m going on my fourth side mission with this crap and I honestly still look like a newbie. I’ve tried Java Selenium with Chrome, Excel VBA with IE9, Vanilla JS in the browser console, and tonight I’m thinking to concoct some kind of hybrid CDP & Selenium approach in Chrome. Never used CDP before, not even sure where to start but I heard it sucks like anything else unless you get some extra libraries and plugins and stuff.

It doesn’t help that I can’t get just anything I want from our IT Department. It would be another PITA to ask for puppeteer. If puppeteer is totally legit please let me know.

Selenium sucks. The buttons don’t click, the waits don’t wait. Its unusable. Iframes are annoying as all hell but I can deal with that. HTML Tables suck too. It doesn’t help I have to restart my whole java program and whole Chrome every time an element doesn’t get picked correctly. Scripting one single element can take all fucking night.

Chrome dev tools what the fuck. Why the fuck is the DOM explorer in the same window as the web page I’m working on?? I can’t undock it. Am I supposed to use a fucking TV screen to work with this bastard?? If I use the remote chrome tools on port 9225 or whatever - It Still Renders The Whole Fucking Page Alongside The Console. Get Out Of My Way!!! The nested HTML CODE IS ONE CHARACTER WIDE ALL THE TIME. I can’t for the life of me figure out what the fuck I’m looking at. Haven’t you people ever heard of A HORIZONTAL SCROLL BAR at least.

Fuck I tried using getElementById, and the Xpath thing and its not all that great seeing I have seemingly 1000s of nested Divs all over the god damned place oftentimes containing a single element. I’m finally on chrome now should I learn Jquery now? I mean seriously wtf.

I use this one no code tool for dev it has web automation built in. As you can imagine its just as broken as anything else!! I have 10 screens to navigate it gets stuck on the second screen all the damn time. Fuck I love clicking the buttons when my script misses and playing catch up with it.

So as a work around to Selenium not waiting even 1 millisecond when I use explicit wait or implicit wait or fluent wait, I’m guessing maybe I can attach both Chrome Dev Tools Protocol (CDP as ive called it earlier) and selenium to the same browser and maybe I can use CDP to perform a Wait with any degree of success. Selenium will do nothing more than execute vanilla javascript Element.click(); This is the only way I know to even ACTUALLY use selenium beyond the simplest html documents possible. Hell I guess CDP can execute js idk.

I can’t get the new selenium that has CDP but I do have some buggy ass selenium from a few years back. Yeah, I remember reading there was a pretty impactful regression defect in the version I have. Maybe I’m being gaslighted by some shit copy of selenium?

The worst part is that I do seem to be having issues that the rest of the internet’s devs do not seem to be having. People act like browser automation is totally viable and pretty OK. How in the fuck hell is my Selenium Test Suite going to be more reliable my application under test?!!?? I’ll have more fucking bugs in my test suite than in my application. Today, I have less than half a test script and, I. already. fucking. do.

I am still SUPER PISSED at the months of 12 hour days (always 8 hours spent on normal sprint work btw only 4 to automation) I spent trying to automate our regression tests. I got NOWHERE.

I did learn a lot about HTML and JS though like I’m not that mad…but I’m just trying to emphasize my achievement on my task was zero.

The buttons don’t click. There are so many divs and I swear you sometimes need to select a div somewhere in the middle sometimes to get it working. The waits don’t wait. XHR requests are invisible. Java crashes 100 times before I find an xpath and thread.sleep() combo that works. I have no failure modes to use — Sometimes I click the same element 20x in a script because I have no way to know if it clicked the first time! Sometimes you gotta scroll the page to make the click work. So many click methods all broken. So many wait methods all broken. Its not just the elements don’t click! There are so many ways to click that almost work but surely they all fail the same in the end. ok at this point I’m just repeating myself…

there yet even more issues that I can’t remember…and will soon remember as I journey into this project yet again…

thanks for reading I hope I entertained and would love to hear your experience!

Is there a sane way to allow external styling of vanilla web components' shadow dom? Right now I do it by using 30 CSS variables, but I feel like there should be a better way.